efzauner Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 hello I am trying to make a center using KLF10 tweeter and crossover but with 2 x Eminence Alpha 8a woofers. As a starting point I am simulating stock KLF10 low pass section with KLF 10 K1056K woofers I would then modify the crossover if needed for the Alpha8as with Re=5.3 and Le=.44 What I get is all wonky, why the big drop and peak? What am I missing here? thanks! (if I replace the R-L of the woofer with just R=8 ohms it is no better, -12db at 1.5Khz.) KLF10.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechEngVic Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 I got lots of help from Maz4bz in his post where he modifies his KG 5.5's. The frequency response graphs of the woofers and tweeters of the KG's are similar to the KLF-10. In fact the high frequency driver is the same (the horn shape is different). The files are for use with X-Sim and they will get you close to what your looking for. When you incorporate the different woofers you'll be using, you can use to method in my other post to copy their graphs and make them X-Sim files. KLF10Factory.dxo Parallel woofers.zma tweeter.frd tweeter.zma woofersv2.frd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechEngVic Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 You can use the image in this PDF to make the X-Sim files, both curves are on the same graph, just make two separate trace files, just be careful when you're tracing them. Alpha_8A.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maz4bz Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 If I may I'd like to suggest you orientate your drivers like this: Or kind a-like this.... 😉 Ideally you'd also roll off one woofer using a 2.5 way crossover to avoid the off axis cancelations you get from a 2 way like we showed happens with a "normal" horizontal center channel. A two way will probably work ok straight ahead, but the response off-axis will likely be negatively impacted like this.... The 2.5way crossover worked wonders with my KG 5.5's - think big-center-channel with two woofers but standing up rather than lying on its side. 🧐 Good luck! 🍻 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efzauner Posted March 12, 2020 Author Share Posted March 12, 2020 Thanks! lots to digest ! But I am sort of going to reproduce a KLF C7 but with the KLF10 tweeter and the 2 Alpha8s The C7s do not have a 2.5 way design. The woofers would be almost as close together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maz4bz Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Great plan, my advice however is to not flank the horn with woofers unless you are the only person in the room listening to your centre speaker and sitting straight ahead of it because you will get a response like the graph above; ie below the crossover the two woofers will be interfering with each other. Also you would likely create a very narrow high frequency listening window by orientating the horn like the C7 as it's dispersion is designed for the orientation the other way per the floorstander; ie wide horizontal, narrow vertical for controlled directivity. But whatever you do it'll be a great learning experience. Enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wirrunna Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 On 3/10/2020 at 1:12 PM, efzauner said: What I get is all wonky, why the big drop and peak? What am I missing here? thanks! If you use the impedance of the woofer in your LT Spice model you will need a Zobel network. http://audiojudgement.com/impedance-equalization-circuit-zobel-network/ is the link I use to calculate the values, it also shows where the Zobel connects. For your twin woofers you could try a Zobel of 3.9 ohm and 33uf . The calculation comes to 4.125 and 3.9 is the closest value resistor you could buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efzauner Posted March 12, 2020 Author Share Posted March 12, 2020 12 hours ago, Wirrunna said: If you use the impedance of the woofer in your LT Spice model you will need a Zobel network. http://audiojudgement.com/impedance-equalization-circuit-zobel-network/ is the link I use to calculate the values, it also shows where the Zobel connects. For your twin woofers you could try a Zobel of 3.9 ohm and 33uf . The calculation comes to 4.125 and 3.9 is the closest value resistor you could buy. I understand zobel networks to equalize the woofer impedance.. But the KLF10 does not use one. My basic question is why does the system as is simulate so poorly. The schematic is exactly reproducing the stock crossover and the woofer R and L. E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wirrunna Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 1 hour ago, efzauner said: I understand zobel networks to equalize the woofer impedance.. But the KLF10 does not use one. My basic question is why does the system as is simulate so poorly. The schematic is exactly reproducing the stock crossover and the woofer R and L. E The few Klipsch networks I have simulated in LT Spice have shown bumpy response - try the AK4 , but the reviews mostly say they sound fine. The reports on the weekend class - https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/186096-kmha-class-by-chief-bone-head-oct-18-19/ explained it well, Klipsch use a lot more than just circuit theory and simulation in their network designs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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