KLF10 crossover simulation wonky?

[efzauner]

hello

I am trying to make a center using KLF10 tweeter and crossover but with 2 x Eminence Alpha 8a woofers.  

As a starting point I am simulating stock KLF10  low pass section with KLF 10 K1056K woofers

I would then modify the crossover if needed for the Alpha8as with Re=5.3 and Le=.44 

 

What I get is all wonky,  why the big drop and peak?  What am I missing here? thanks!  

(if I replace the R-L of the woofer with just R=8 ohms it is no better, -12db at 1.5Khz.) 

KLF10.pdf

[MechEngVic]

I got lots of help from Maz4bz in his post where he modifies his KG 5.5's. The frequency response graphs of the woofers and tweeters of the KG's are similar to the KLF-10. In fact the high frequency driver is the same (the horn shape is different). The files are for use with X-Sim and they will get you close to what your looking for. When you incorporate the different woofers you'll be using, you can use to method in my other post to copy their graphs and make them X-Sim files.

 

 

 

KLF10Factory.dxo

Parallel woofers.zma

tweeter.frd

tweeter.zma

woofersv2.frd

[MechEngVic]

You can use the image in this PDF to make the X-Sim files, both curves are on the same graph, just make two separate trace files,  just be careful when you're tracing them.

Alpha_8A.pdf

[Maz4bz]

If I may I'd like to suggest you orientate your drivers like this:

 

 

 

Or kind a-like this....  😉

 

 

Ideally you'd also roll off one woofer using a 2.5 way crossover to avoid the off axis cancelations you get from a 2 way like we showed happens with a "normal" horizontal center channel.

 

A two way will probably work ok straight ahead, but the response off-axis will likely be negatively impacted like this....

 

 

The 2.5way crossover worked wonders with my KG 5.5's - think big-center-channel with two woofers but standing up rather than lying on its side. 🧐

 

Good luck!

🍻

 

 

[efzauner]

Thanks! lots to digest !

But I am sort of going to reproduce a KLF C7 but with the KLF10 tweeter and the 2 Alpha8s    The C7s do not have a 2.5 way design. The woofers would be almost as close together.  

 

 

[Maz4bz]

Great plan, my advice however is to not flank the horn with woofers unless you are the only person in the room listening to your centre speaker and sitting straight ahead of it because you will get a response like the graph above; ie below the crossover the two woofers will be interfering with each other.

 

Also you would likely create a very narrow high frequency listening window by orientating the horn like the C7 as it's dispersion is designed for the orientation the other way per the floorstander; ie wide horizontal, narrow vertical for controlled directivity.

 

But whatever you do it'll be a great learning experience. Enjoy!

[Wirrunna]

On 3/10/2020 at 1:12 PM, efzauner said:

What I get is all wonky,  why the big drop and peak?  What am I missing here? thanks!  

If you use the impedance of the woofer in your LT Spice model you will need a Zobel network.

 

http://audiojudgement.com/impedance-equalization-circuit-zobel-network/ is the link I use to calculate the values, it also shows where the Zobel connects.

 

For your twin woofers you could try a Zobel of 3.9 ohm and 33uf .  The calculation comes to 4.125 and 3.9 is the closest value resistor you could buy.   

[efzauner]

12 hours ago, Wirrunna said:

If you use the impedance of the woofer in your LT Spice model you will need a Zobel network.

 

http://audiojudgement.com/impedance-equalization-circuit-zobel-network/ is the link I use to calculate the values, it also shows where the Zobel connects.

 

For your twin woofers you could try a Zobel of 3.9 ohm and 33uf .  The calculation comes to 4.125 and 3.9 is the closest value resistor you could buy.   

I understand zobel networks to equalize the woofer impedance.. But the KLF10 does not use one. My basic question is why does the system as is simulate so poorly. The schematic is exactly reproducing the stock crossover and the woofer R and L. 

 

E

[Wirrunna]

1 hour ago, efzauner said:

I understand zobel networks to equalize the woofer impedance.. But the KLF10 does not use one. My basic question is why does the system as is simulate so poorly. The schematic is exactly reproducing the stock crossover and the woofer R and L. 

 

E

The few Klipsch networks I have simulated in LT Spice have shown bumpy response - try the AK4 , but the reviews mostly say they sound fine.

The reports on the weekend class -  

 https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/186096-kmha-class-by-chief-bone-head-oct-18-19/   

explained it well, Klipsch use a lot more than just circuit theory and simulation in their network designs.