Corona Virus Disease/(SARS-CoV-2) II

[pzannucci]

4 minutes ago, sputnik said:

Yes, the system will be running again - everyone wants that. The re-engagement must be based on science for it to be a valid “structured reopening” and not some politician’s empty rhetoric meant to still up a reactionary base.  In the full context of that quote he said workers, small business, and the markets were being “crushed” and was implying that we’ll being going over the cliff if we continue to take the precautionary measures that are proving to be effective at slowing the spread of a deadly virus.  Is another few weeks of caution too much sacrifice to protect lives including the lives of our children.  Schools would also be re-opened and are Petri dishes for virus spread with each child wallowing in the mix and then going home for further spread - they are ideal vectors.

 

I think we’re all assessing what sacrifice we are willing to make for the greater good.  One side says “get the economy rolling to protect our livelihoods and wealth even at the cost of a few lives” the other says “sacrifice a few hits to our wealth and livelihoods for a bit longer (certainly not forever) to protect lives.”  I fall in the second group because, even as a capitalist, I think that we’ll build a stronger economy in the long run rather than accelerating along with the same thinking that put the economy on thin ice to begin with.  The economy was fragile, if it wasn’t the virus that triggered a collapse, it would’ve been something else.  A correction is needed whether we like how it feels or not but I don’t want to keep repeating it.

The problem with your argument (which is valid but only one view) is that we will not have a vaccine for at least a year and we don't have herd immunity.  We need therapeutics to start with and if we did everything by the book, there won't be anything to reopen.  The US will make Venezuela look good.  So to wait for 3 weeks is worthless other than hospital capacity.  Nothing is going to change and we will have the same risks.  You have to choose which you want.  Be crushed by the poverty which is guaranteed or follow reasonable standards, reopen and most likely be crushed less by the virus? 

 

Choose your poison.

[dtel's wife]

Is posting links from Hillsdale College (promoted by Rush Limbaugh and Mark Levin) spreading fake news?

If an article or speech is posted in its entirety how is it fake news. The reader can make their own determination. Or, are you saying people aren’t smart enough to decide what’s fake and what’s not when given adequate information.


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[sputnik]

2 minutes ago, dtel's wife said:

So what do you propose as a solution for those who can’t feed their families or will be facing eviction or no utilities? No transportation to and from work because their vehicles will be repossessed? Are you willing to offer to pay their bills?

Are you saying the responsibility to reopen with caution lies with the state and local government or that the federal government should just take complete control.

There are no easy answers.


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I think in many states, the government has taken action to require forbearance that protects people from foreclosure, eviction, utility cuts.  I’m not saying that any government should take “control.”  Leadership would be nice though it’s only emerging locally.  I agree there are no easy answers - “it’s a kaka sandwich and we all gotta take a bite.”

[Dave A]

1 hour ago, dtel's wife said:

There’s a lot of meaning to what he said when you consider the entire sound bite. I want to know that my children and grandchildren will have something remaining when this is all over.

I don’t really care who he said it to. What does that really matter?


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Yes because growing debt is passed forward and most of it to be paid by many who are not even born yet. One of the things that the geniuses that founded this country considered was that no debt should go past 7 years and no generation should have the right to enslave the next one through debt. I don't understand how so many voting adults do not see how destructive many things are in the rush to feel good today and let the future unravel the mess created. Guns and Butter under LBJ comes to mind and he was the one who took social security out of it's own firewalled existence and put it into the general fund where it was promptly spent. That money if it would have been left alone would have represented a huge chunk of change by now if it would have been left alone and given only to those promised it at the time.

  This BS pile of money being spent because we are not working is added to the burden others have to pay. 

 And yes it does not matter who he said it too. Tucker pulls the shroud off many liberals and RINO's too when he gets right down to real investigative journalism. The truth shall make you free and deliberate deception will enslave you. It is why they hate him so much.

[jimjimbo]

6 minutes ago, Gilbert said:

forum decor.

Forum decor?  That's a good one.  Probably belongs in the "Jokes" thread.

[pzannucci]

Just now, sputnik said:

I think in many states, the government has taken action to require forbearance that protects people from foreclosure, eviction, utility cuts.  I’m not saying that any government should take “control.”  Leadership would be nice though it’s only emerging locally.  I agree there are no easy answers - “it’s a kaka sandwich and we all gotta take a bite.”

The bad part of that argument is the protections have a trickle down effect.  If I rent a house that I have a mortgage on, do I qualify and does it matter that my renter doesn't pay the rent?  The electric company needs it's payments to pay the guy going out and fixing the electric during this shutdown.  He doesn't get his money and likely doesn't qualify, now he is laid off or lost his pay.  

 

Taking one piece without the understanding of the overall effect is worthless.  The govt. does not have the money with being 22T in debt.  It will print money and you might as well get your wheel barrel with money to go buy your food.  No backing, it's funny money.  QUITE UGLY in the long term.

[OO1]

On 4/21/2020 at 7:30 AM, Woofers and Tweeters said:

An Eric Clapton song comes to mind. 

I would love to know the name of that Eric Clapton song , I don't know his music very well , please enlighten me -

[sputnik]

3 minutes ago, pzannucci said:

The bad part of that argument is the protections have a trickle down effect.  If I rent a house that I have a mortgage on, do I qualify and does it matter that my renter doesn't pay the rent?  The electric company needs it's payments to pay the guy going out and fixing the electric during this shutdown.  He doesn't get his money and likely doesn't qualify, now he is laid off or lost his pay.  

 

Taking one piece without the understanding of the overall effect is worthless.  The govt. does not have the money with being 22T in debt.  It will print money and you might as well get your wheel barrel with money to go buy your food.  No backing, it's funny money.  QUITE UGLY in the long term.

I get that there’s a domino effect.  It is complicated and will not end pretty.  In times like these, we have to look out for each other - we’ve done so in the past.  We need to suck it up and live up to our legacy.  I think there just has to be enough give and take on everyone’s part.  

[dtel's wife]

I think in many states, the government has taken action to require forbearance that protects people from foreclosure, eviction, utility cuts.  I’m not saying that any government should take “control.”  Leadership would be nice though it’s only emerging locally.  I agree there are no easy answers - “it’s a kaka sandwich and we all gotta take a bite.”

You are correct about forebearance etc. exactly how long are landlords, utility companies, banks supposed to go without payment?

It is the responsibility of the states and local government to prepare for disasters such as this. They weren’t prepared. Exactly how much of this should the federal government be responsible for? Where does it end?


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[pzannucci]

8 minutes ago, sputnik said:

I get that there’s a domino effect.  It is complicated and will not end pretty.  In times like these, we have to look out for each other - we’ve done so in the past.  We need to suck it up and live up to our legacy.  I think there just has to be enough give and take on everyone’s part.  

Yes, the give and take is to learn how to live more like we do in shutdown but with things open.  Masks, handshakes, distancing to a level is what we need to do moving forward until there is a vaccine (which as it mutates will likely be a long long time) so we need to get things moving again before crushing people's livelihoods and lives does more damage than the virus itself.

[Jeff Matthews]

17 minutes ago, dtel's wife said:

You are correct about forebearance etc. exactly how long are landlords, utility companies, banks supposed to go without payment?
 

I haven't bothered to seriously inquire, but this sounds like the state governments are impairing the obligation of contracts.

[pzannucci]

3 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

I guess it means all the graduating students will know more about the Bill of Rights, separation of powers and how the feds exceed their authority.  That's nice.

 

If a person has both sex organs at birth, is it male or female?

The exceeding of their authority has NOTHING to do with Bill of Rights.  It has to do with the stupidity of the people we allow to be our representatives, we either voted them in and don't vote them out or something.  Don't blame the Bill of Rights for the excesses we allow in our government and all the government overreach. 

I see too much of that and "We the People" are to ignorant to do anything about it let alone the fact that a lot of the folks in office don't even really listen to what the people want, evidenced by the latest CA. stuff.

[pzannucci]

Back to the subject, where are our antibody tests?

[pzannucci]

8 minutes ago, Dave A said:

People that value freedom of thought know there are strings of manipulation attached to government money.

Manipulation and lack of value on you're ownership of your life and direction.

[Dave A]

1 minute ago, Jeff Matthews said:

These strings exist everywhere unless you want to be a loser outcast.  Remember when the masses demanded the NFL players stop kneeling, shut up with their opinions and just play for us?

NFL attendance was with money earned and freely given and those people were telling those they hired to do what they were hired for and stop the nonsense. They also then decided to stop giving the NFL lots of money and the problem of tone deaf players will in time take its natural course. Govt money often has an agenda attached that supercedes its stated purpose and is done with money taken from people many of who do not approve of how it is spent. Unlike the NFL players who can move on and find other work there is no escape from forcible taxation.

[Jeff Matthews]

Just now, pzannucci said:

The exceeding of their authority has NOTHING to do with Bill of Rights.  It has to do with the stupidity of the people we allow to be our representatives, we either voted them in and don't vote them out or something.  Don't blame the Bill of Rights for the excesses we allow in our government and all the government overreach. 

I see too much of that and "We the People" are to ignorant to do anything about it let alone the fact that a lot of the folks in office don't even really listen to what the people want, evidenced by the latest CA. stuff.

There's that and then, there's reality.  Here's reality:

 

The federal government was intended to have very limited powers.  In the days of wild frontiers and travel by horse, it made some sense.  Then, along came the industrial revolution.  Trade skyrocketed.  We couldn't live under 50 different standards nearly so easily as before.  Single standards are efficient.  Commerce demands predictability and efficiency to thrive.  If the feds didn't jump in and overstep to make this happen, we'd be a weak republic, like Mexico.

[Sancho Panza]

Weak Republic, as intended, sounds good to me.

[Jeff Matthews]

2 minutes ago, Dave A said:

NFL attendance was with money earned and freely given and those people were telling those they hired to do what they were hired for and stop the nonsense. They also then decided to stop giving the NFL lots of money and the problem of tone deaf players will in time take its natural course. Govt money often has an agenda attached that supercedes its stated purpose and is done with money taken from people many of who do not approve of how it is spent. Unlike the NFL players who can move on and find other work there is no escape from forcible taxation.

The only 2 things which are certain are death and taxes.  Such is life.  If you can find any civilization which doesn't operate under these rules, let us know.

[sputnik]

9 minutes ago, Dave A said:

People that value freedom of thought know there are strings of manipulation attached to government money.

 

...and another thing per my earlier post, the “strings of manipulation” you mention are constraints to assure objectivity and transparency over unchecked propaganda and brainwashing.  That’s how Hillsdale and it’s wealthy promoters can avoid any intellectual challenge.

[Jeff Matthews]

3 minutes ago, Sancho Panza said:

Weak Republic, as intended, sounds good to me.

Then, we would be invaded all the time by strong aggressors.  We would not be the world leader.  I doubt you'd like it, but who knows?