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On 4/10/2020 at 5:10 PM, Wolfbane said:

The Electron Microscope did not exist before its development in Germany in the mid to late 1930's. Microscopes, as they existed in 1917 through 1920 did not have the resolution to see the Avian Virus that is suspected to be responsible for the Greatest Pandemic of the 20th Century.

 

Light microscopes still don't have the resolution to see viruses many are only 30 to 100  nanometers in size (millionths of a millimeter). Averege size of bacteria, 1 to 10 microns.

 

Viruses were theorized, in the late 1800s, first by Ivanofsky with the tobacco mosaic virus. He was able to deduce this by running a sap/water combination from diseased plants  through a Rutherford filter (developed by R., a student of Pasteur's, that was capable of filtering out all bacteria). Even after filtration something smaller than bacteria was getting through and causing the disease was what his work uncovered.  Ivanofsky was able to deduce that there were pathogens much, much, smaller than bacteria.

 

The Tobacco Mosiac virus was visually confirmed with the invention of the electron microscope. 

 

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22 minutes ago, ILI said:

If Dr Shiva is right

How could anyone doubt the man who invented email?

 

He claims you can beat it with vitamins. 

 

He isn't right when it comes to this disease, we all know that. However, some people just can't pass up a good conspiracy and they watch on.

 

I guess the anti-vaxxer vote is still up for grabs.

 

Look a squirrel. That gets our Rat Terrier every time.

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Meanwhile those woodchucks are busy chucking wood.

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3 hours ago, ILI said:

I watched this and it 's very informative to hear an alternative voice. 

In Belgium, where I live, some people say something similar, but don' 't get to the mainstream media. Some f.i. blame the G4/G5 cellphone network for the bad condition of our immune system. 

 

If Dr Shiva is right, it means that this pharmaceutical lobby has brought the world' s economy to its knees. It is so radical it is scary. 

Only a few countries didn't follow the WHO , at first, like the Dutch, the UK, Sweden and Brasil. The Dutch and the UK quickly changed course. 

 

It's only a different POV. There have been several people here who are trying to blame cell towers for their problems before this Wuhan Flu. Lots of people are blaming the government for not shutting down sooner and some say that totally shutting down was the wrong way to go.

 

I have posted before that it will be interesting to watch South Dakota, Sweden and places that didn't shut down. Even then, there are variables, such as population differences and learning what to do from those who made mistakes, that will alter some of the reports. Dr. Shiva's pov is a bit extreme on some things. Usually, the truth is in between two extremes. 

 

 

3 hours ago, ILI said:

We'll have to wait a long time imp before we'll know who is right here. 

Yes, a lot to be learned. Even then, the next time it will be different and will need unknown decisions. 

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3 hours ago, dwilawyer said:

How could anyone doubt the man who invented email?

 

Electronic mail goes way back. I think he was in a squabble about that and did have a copyright to the word email. 

 

3 hours ago, dwilawyer said:

He claims you can beat it with vitamins. 

 

Again, somewhere between extremes. I am not an anti vaccine supporter, but big pharma have been disease mongering for a long time. A lot of what pharma offers only medicates the symptoms, rather than the causes.  They are not looking for a cure, they want us to buy their products: pills, even if the side effects are worse than the ailment. I remember the push for antidepressants that brought along suicidal thoughts, and look at the opioid problems we now have. People are vulnerable and are always looking for Mother's Little Helper and big pharma want's their money. 

 

Similar to lawyers getting elected to write laws so more people have to bring money to the court systems, it's very self-supporting. 

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3 hours ago, Woofers and Tweeters said:

They are not looking for a cure, they want us to buy their products

Hmmmmm.......   so humanity expects to live long lives where they can do anything they wish to their bodies and then should rely upon the medical sciences to wave a magical ‘cure’ wand to immediately and painlessly mend their boo boos and diseases (both naturally occurring and self inflicted)? Oh, I forgot ‘free’ - the ‘’cure’’ should be free.

 

If little else comes from this covid19 mess I hope humanity can embrace the reality of life. It is a lot more fragile and hard to mend than they realize. And that they must play a more active role in their own health status for the good of everyone’s health. More than ever in history we understand how best to lead healthy lives. We know how best to eat, to keep clean, to eat safe food and how to maintain healthy bodies. Ask your own self...... how much of that knowledge do you personally embrace? 
 

No - medicine is not magic. It is not painless and it is not immediate and it is not free. It is insanely complex and it serves a population that largely is non compliant with well understood tenets of healthy living. Then they complain? 
 

Speaking of ‘cures’. Most people will say medicine has cured things like polio and tetanus and many ailments once common and oh so lethal. No there’s no ‘cure’ for most diseases. We can prevent them by prepping the body to fight them naturally by using vaccines. But if you did get polio or tetanus tomorrow you would have to suffer the wrath of the disease with modern medicine just treating your symptoms. Medicine did give us cures against many bacterial infections and those organisms responded by selecting more resistant strains. Pathogens are not ‘static’. They are dynamic and give us a moving target. We do seem to have eradicated small pox - for what it’s worth.

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16 minutes ago, Bosco-d-gama said:

Hmmmmm.......   so humanity expects to live long lives where they can do anything they wish to their bodies and then should rely upon the medical sciences to wave a magical ‘cure’ wand to immediately and painlessly mend their boo boos and diseases (both naturally occurring and self inflicted)? Oh, I forgot ‘free’ - the ‘’cure’’ should be free.

Easy there. Where did I say free? A bit extreme there.  Also, there is no cure from the ailments of getting old except to not live long. 

 

I agree with what you're saying about if people would take better care of themselves it could lead to a healthier life. That doesn't take away from what I said about the addictive drugs and the side effects. The addictiveness of some drugs were ignored by many and the pill mills went into full swing. Now it has gotten to where people who need pain killers can't get them. Again, these are the extremes and somewhere in the middle is where it would have worked the best. 

 

You might have said already, but I missed it: What is it you do in your field of work? 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Woofers and Tweeters said:

It's only a different POV. There have been several people here who are trying to blame cell towers for their problems before this Wuhan Flu. Lots of people are blaming the government for not shutting down sooner and some say that totally shutting down was the wrong way to go.

 

I have posted before that it will be interesting to watch South Dakota, Sweden and places that didn't shut down. Even then, there are variables, such as population differences and learning what to do from those who made mistakes

 

 

 


Watching S Dakota results compared to NYC is certainly an apples/oranges comparison. I’d bet NY has more public transportation in a 10 square block area  than SD in its entirety. Elevators, escalators, subway, trains, cabs, all opportunities for touching any and all surfaces capable of carrying the virus. Along with a population base of 10 fold - NYC 8.5 million, SD state 875,000 a comparison of strategy is a non-starter and doubtful any true finding can be made considering these vast differences. I may have understated the premise  - more like grape to watermelon comparison —

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3 minutes ago, richieb said:


Watching S Dakota results compared to NYC is certainly an apples/oranges comparison. I’d bet NY has more public transportation in a 10 square block area  than SD in its entirety. Elevators, escalators, subway, trains, cabs, all opportunities for touching any and all surfaces capable of carrying the virus. Along with a population base of 10 fold - NYC 8.5 million, SD state 875,000 a comparison of strategy is a non-starter and doubtful any true finding can be made considering these vast differences. I may have understated the premise  - more like grape to watermelon comparison —

Manhattan has 67,000 people living in every square mile.

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1 hour ago, Woofers and Tweeters said:

Easy there. Where did I say free? A bit extreme there.  Also, there is no cure from the ailments of getting old except to not live long. 

 

I agree with what you're saying about if people would take better care of themselves it could lead to a healthier life. That doesn't take away from what I said about the addictive drugs and the side effects. The addictiveness of some drugs were ignored by many and the pill mills went into full swing. Now it has gotten to where people who need pain killers can't get them. Again, these are the extremes and somewhere in the middle is where it would have worked the best. 

 

You might have said already, but I missed it: What is it you do in your field of work? 

 

 

Your post implied that the pharm industry percolates treatments instead of cures for the purpose of revenue generation - money. My message is that medicine can cure few things and works it’s best to treat them, to palliative the ailment, to reduce suffering and allow the broken and sick to heal. Sure, as in any business there are unscrupulous practices and people’s. Treat the nefarious individually and do not paint these professions negatively. As you witness daily healthcare workers are, and always have been, a selfless breed working 24/7/365 to care for others.

 

I am a Respiratory Care Practitioner and the textbooks I used in college now reference the research I pioneered.

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7 hours ago, Woofers and Tweeters said:

I have posted before that it will be interesting to watch South Dakota, Sweden and places that didn't shut down. Even then, there are variables, such as population differences and learning what to do from those who made mistakes, that will alter some of the reports.

 

52 minutes ago, richieb said:


Watching S Dakota results compared to NYC is certainly an apples/oranges comparison. I’d bet NY has more public transportation in a 10 square block area  than SD in its entirety. Elevators, escalators, subway, trains, cabs, all opportunities for touching any and all surfaces capable of carrying the virus. Along with a population base of 10 fold - NYC 8.5 million, SD state 875,000 a comparison of strategy is a non-starter and doubtful any true finding can be made considering these vast differences. I may have understated the premise  - more like grape to watermelon comparison —

Yes, density is one, I had looked up the numbers of those, along with Brazil and other countries before posting. Even trying to compare it to Mexico City presents the variable of housing, transportation, medical readiness and such. That's why I said they can't be compared, but they can be studied to see what worked or not. 

The mindset is also watermelon and grapes apart between SD and NY.  

 

56 minutes ago, CECAA850 said:

Manhattan has 67,000 people living in every square mile.

I can't imagine trying to live there.

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2 hours ago, richieb said:


Watching S Dakota results compared to NYC is certainly an apples/oranges comparison. I’d bet NY has more public transportation in a 10 square block area  than SD in its entirety. Elevators, escalators, subway, trains, cabs, all opportunities for touching any and all surfaces capable of carrying the virus. Along with a population base of 10 fold - NYC 8.5 million, SD state 875,000 a comparison of strategy is a non-starter and doubtful any true finding can be made considering these vast differences. I may have understated the premise  - more like grape to watermelon comparison —

 

Posted yesterday. This is what is happening at one pork processor in South Dakota:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/13/south-dakota-pork-plant-closes-after-200-workers-contract-covid-19

 

Currently, it is wise to avoid crowded conditions everywhere.

 

Wb

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10 minutes ago, Wolfbane said:

 

Posted yesterday. This is what is happening at one pork processor in South Dakota:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/13/south-dakota-pork-plant-closes-after-200-workers-contract-covid-19

 

Currently, it is wise to avoid crowded conditions everywhere.

 

Wb

What could it be besides close contact?

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10 minutes ago, billybob said:

What could it be besides close contact?

I have read that our shoes can bring it home.

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Just now, Woofers and Tweeters said:

I have read that our shoes can bring it home.

Just one more thing to remember.

Thanks!

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4 minutes ago, Randyh said:

NY CITY IS HUGE   with a very high density  , but so is California LA -- and some parts of Texas , anywhere you have highrises and thousands of people living in 1 builiding sharing  elevators -hallways , you will haigher transmission levels of Coivid 19 - it is like a big  cocoon

So gloves at times, and or your portable

Disinfect along with mask when you leave your apartment to from doors and elevators. Spray or leave shoes at door or entraceway inside. Hang clothes and spray.

Launder...

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