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I had asked this question some time back when I thought I had KG2.2s with phenolic cone tweeters (don't ask.... :(  Now that my brain is back in operation and I know I have KG2.5s with a polymer tweeter....

 

Curious if anyone has any insight as to whether it makes sense to move to a titanium tweeter (as in a Crites replacement). Would the highs be "sweeter" or have more clarity? Is it even worth it for these speakers?

 

BTW - I recently replaced the caps in my x-over, fwiw

 

Thx in advance.....

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In all the models I've switched to titanium I've personally liked the modification:

KG4

forte II

Chorus I

Heresy II

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Welcome... defer to those who have gone titanium.

How do they sound now to your ears?

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Finally found the specs on that model. Tweeter is K-86.

 

I have never owned a pair, but have had a pair or two of d’appolito speakers before.

 

When you are in the sweet spot the imaging really grabs you by the boo-boo!

 

If you are keeping those speakers you can’t go wrong with the ti diaphragm.

 

Save the originals and if you get rid of the 2.5s you can always use the titaniums in any of a number of other klipsch products.

 

Just be careful with the installation and removal, they are quite fragile. I have broken one in the process.

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Posted (edited)

Appreciate the feedback. I have been very tempted to make the upgrade. I've heard mostly good stuff from other folks with whom I've spoken, but I've also read on other forums that some folks thought upgrade was barely noticeable and not really worth it. BTW - my polys are in perfect condition.

 

@wuzzzer

 

What was it specifically you liked abt the mod?

 

@geoff.

 

"...grabs you by the boo-boo!..." wtf  :)   Good suggestion (not abt the "boo-boo" ;) I can also sell the polys as a replacement  for someone who needs them, or sell the tis if I decide I'm not impressed. Sounds like a win-win.

 

I'll give a bit more thought and see if anyone has any input. Thx....

Edited by stepher

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They gave more detail and "sparkle" to the high end.  Not overly bright, though.  They made instruments such as cymbals, horns, etc sound more real.

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Just a quick update.....

 

Bought the Ti tweeters. Figured can't go wrong either way. Have not yet installed them (who knew I would have to schedule specific time for this with the way things are right now :(

 

I''ll post back once they're installed and I've had a chance to burn them in and listen to them.

 

Be smart. Stay safe. Keep healthy.....cheers....

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Would like to hear your impressions once you've tried them. I put the Crite's in my KLF-10's and I liked their sound better than the stock diaphragms. 

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I'll second what wuzzer said.  I did a staged/stepped upgrade on my 2.5's, one speaker at a time, one change at a time.  Did one thing, listened, took other speaker, did that thing and the next thing to it, and so on.

 

  1. swapped out the electrolytics for ERSE PulseX,  sound cleaned up greatly and all the treble came from the modified speaker.  Oddly, both of those caps were on the woofers.
  2. Swapped in the film caps from Crite's kit (don't remember the style).  Even better treble and sound.
  3. Added in the titanium diaphragms.  The highs extended and became beautiful.  There's not really much else to say about it.

I'm using one of the 2.5's as a center channel speaker, with my CF2's. Tonal balance across all three speakers is pretty good, not a huge surprise since the CF2's have a light metal diaphragm in the horns.

 

Highly recommended upgrade.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/30/2020 at 11:57 AM, DirtyErnie said:

I'll second what wuzzer said.  I did a staged/stepped upgrade on my 2.5's, one speaker at a time, one change at a time.  Did one thing, listened, took other speaker, did that thing and the next thing to it, and so on.

 

  1. swapped out the electrolytics for ERSE PulseX,  sound cleaned up greatly and all the treble came from the modified speaker.  Oddly, both of those caps were on the woofers.
  2. Swapped in the film caps from Crite's kit (don't remember the style).  Even better treble and sound.
  3. Added in the titanium diaphragms.  The highs extended and became beautiful.  There's not really much else to say about it.

I'm using one of the 2.5's as a center channel speaker, with my CF2's. Tonal balance across all three speakers is pretty good, not a huge surprise since the CF2's have a light metal diaphragm in the horns.

 

Highly recommended upgrade.

 

Appreciate the feedback from your experience.

 

Did both x-overs at the same time (becuz I figured after 20 yrs. it was prob'ly due anyways) and was pleased with the results (I'm running an Onkyo TX-NR626 and did a re-multieq followed by a manual adjustment after the new caps were installed).

 

I'm hoping to get to the tweeters sometime this week or next and am looking forward to listening to the speakers with the Tis (will do a re-multieq then, as well). As mentioned in my previous post, will come back here and provide my feedback. BTW - Both KG2.5s are my main speakers (don't have a big enuf room to do justice to Heresys) without a center channel. Using Bose 401s as rear/sides and a Klipsch KSW-150 (10", 150W) sub to fill in the low end.

 

Be smart. Be safe. Stay healthy.....cheers...

Edited by stepher

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Is there any way you can post before/after/EQ curves for the 2.5's? I never really thought mine needed much help,  in a 13' wide living room with 8' ceilings (room length?  there's four different ones, between the closet, bathroom wall, hallway, and bedroom wall sections).

 

They definitely needed a subwoofer crossed at 50Hz to support the lowest frequencies.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/1/2020 at 12:07 PM, DirtyErnie said:

Is there any way you can post before/after/EQ curves for the 2.5's? I never really thought mine needed much help,  in a 13' wide living room with 8' ceilings (room length?  there's four different ones, between the closet, bathroom wall, hallway, and bedroom wall sections).

 

They definitely needed a subwoofer crossed at 50Hz to support the lowest frequencies.

 

UPDATE (4/3/20):

 

Actually, I'm going to search for some PC S/W and see if I can use the setup mic that came with the receiver to develop some EQ curves. Will take a bit of time, but who doesn't have time these days :(

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Sorry. Don't have that kind of equipment to do that sort of thing. I just use the mic and eq s/w provided by the receiver and do finer adjustments by ear. As for the sub cross, I have set the LFE in the rcvr at 80Hz to make the 6" drivers in the 2.5s a bit more midrange. Kind of like the sound.

Edited by stepher
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OK. Had a chance to complete my tweeter upgrades yesterday. Obviously, they'll need more time to burn/settle in, but here are my initial reactions (more later after I've gotten used to the new parts). My music sources included older analog material, as well as, digitally mastered recordings, all from disk. Music style was both rock and roll and smooth jazz/new age (don't have any classical in my collection).

 

A couple of folks here used the term sparkle" to describe how the new tweeters would sound. Not sure exactly what that means, but I did find my high end/mids more "filled in" than with the poly tweeters. I guess it gave it more "breadth" of sound in that range. More specifically, some of the good (if there is such a thing) harmonics helped to better define things like cymbals, snares, bongo-like instruments and even the sound of air blowing across the flute. I also heard more guitar fingering in some of the songs. Triangle and chimes were a bit more pronounced. If that's what people mean by "sparkle", then yes, I got that :)

 

Overall, the improvement was not very pronounced, but enuf in areas that I noticed. Highs were, indeed, sweet and smooth.

 

Like I said, tho, more time is needed so the tweeters can burn in and I can become more accustomed to the new sound. Then I'll report back with an updated experience.

 

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This is a curious question for those who may be more knowledgeable about this than I......

 

I bought my receiver (Onkyo TX-NR626) about 5 yrs. ago. When I did an eq testing on it (Audyssey MultiEQ in the receiver) then, it showed the -3db low end of the KG2.5s @ 50Hz. Made sense since that was where the spkrs. were spec'd. Fast forward to a couple of weeks ago when I replaced the x-over caps and did a re-eq. Again, KG2.5s were shown to have a -3db point @ 50Hz (didn't really expect any changes).

 

So, a few days ago I replaced the tweeters and yesterday did another re-eq. Interestingly, this time it showed the low end -3db @ 40Hz for the KG2.5s. Other than the x-over upgrades 3 weeks ago and tweeter upgrade (diaphragms only), nothing has changed. The sprks were repositioned to within 1/4" of where they were (relative to the wall behind them) before any upgrades. And, while things may have changed (but not much) in the living room between the time of when I bought the receiver and re-eq'd after the x-over upgrade, nothing has changed (except maybe the weather?) between the x-over mods and the tweeter upgrades.

 

Only thin that might be of significance....When I did the x-overs, I noticed 1 of the 8 screws that mounted the front panel to the cabinet had stripped its threads (actually, the 1"x1" wood furring strip had developed a crack across the screw hole thus making it really easy to remove the screw). At that time, I reglued and clamped the piece back in place. Then, when I did the tweeters recently I drilled a new screw hole (actually kind of redrilled the screw hole in a slight different angle away from the crack) which tightened down the screw.

 

Any insight on this? Could it be the new electrolytic NPOs have "settled in" (doubt the mylars I replaced would have anything to do with the low end since they're in the tweeter circuit)? Thx.

 

Quick update on perception of the new tweeters...I have found he spkrs a bit "brighter" so I turned down the treble 2 db (only allows 2 db increments/decrements :( Will continue to listen and observe a while longer....

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On 4/3/2020 at 9:32 AM, stepher said:

OK. Had a chance to complete my tweeter upgrades yesterday. Obviously, they'll need more time to burn/settle in, but here are my initial reactions (more later after I've gotten used to the new parts). My music sources included older analog material, as well as, digitally mastered recordings, all from disk. Music style was both rock and roll and smooth jazz/new age (don't have any classical in my collection).

 

A couple of folks here used the term sparkle" to describe how the new tweeters would sound. Not sure exactly what that means, but I did find my high end/mids more "filled in" than with the poly tweeters. I guess it gave it more "breadth" of sound in that range. More specifically, some of the good (if there is such a thing) harmonics helped to better define things like cymbals, snares, bongo-like instruments and even the sound of air blowing across the flute. I also heard more guitar fingering in some of the songs. Triangle and chimes were a bit more pronounced. If that's what people mean by "sparkle", then yes, I got that :)

 

Overall, the improvement was not very pronounced, but enuf in areas that I noticed. Highs were, indeed, sweet and smooth.

 

Like I said, tho, more time is needed so the tweeters can burn in and I can become more accustomed to the new sound. Then I'll report back with an updated experience.

 

 

Just an FYI for you, Crites as well as most others say tweeters & smaller speakers are "burned -in" in a matter of seconds if not instantly.  The new tweeters dont need more time to burn in, any changes you hear after the first minute or 2 are your ears adjusting to the new sound.  Heres a quote from Crites website about burn in:

 

How about break in time for drivers or new driver diaphragms?

A:  Yes, and depends on the size of the driver.  Tweeter diaphragm probably break-in at a matter of seconds.  They are very low mass and move very little, so any break in would happen almost instantly.  Probably happened when the factory tested the diaphragm after manufacture.

Midrange are a bit bigger and have a bit more mass.  Break-in is probably on the order of minutes with these.

Woofers would take the longest.  I think that break-in on a 12 to 15 inch woofer would be less than an hour played at pretty good volume using music with a lot of low frequency content.  

 

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1 hour ago, EpicKlipschFan said:

 

Just an FYI for you, Crites as well as most others say tweeters & smaller speakers are "burned -in" in a matter of seconds if not instantly.  The new tweeters dont need more time to burn in, any changes you hear after the first minute or 2 are your ears adjusting to the new sound.  Heres a quote from Crites website about burn in:

 

How about break in time for drivers or new driver diaphragms?

A:  Yes, and depends on the size of the driver.  Tweeter diaphragm probably break-in at a matter of seconds.  They are very low mass and move very little, so any break in would happen almost instantly.  Probably happened when the factory tested the diaphragm after manufacture.

Midrange are a bit bigger and have a bit more mass.  Break-in is probably on the order of minutes with these.

Woofers would take the longest.  I think that break-in on a 12 to 15 inch woofer would be less than an hour played at pretty good volume using music with a lot of low frequency content.  

 

I guess that you and Bob will enjoy listening to brand new drivers together. Some also think burn in of caps is foolishness also. Each to their own.

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I'm actually not too worried abt "burn in" time...except as it pertains to my ears (I kinda use "burn in" as a euphemism for my ears becoming adjusted to the sound). Maybe there is...maybe there isn't. I'll just keep listening and when I feel things are settled in (meaning ME) I will listen more closely to see what differences I notice.

 

More interesting to me is the fact that the 20+ yr. old "woofers" now reach 10 Hz lower in their response and why that might be.

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On 4/5/2020 at 11:59 AM, moray james said:

I guess that you and Bob will enjoy listening to brand new drivers together. Some also think burn in of caps is foolishness also. Each to their own.

 

Not sure what that even means... was just posting what an "expert" says about small drivers & burn in times related to the OP's question.  Do you have proof that tweeters need to be burned in for some magical amount of time?  

 

& heres what Bob says about capacitors,  dont shoot the messenger....

 

Q:  Do components have a break-in time?

A:  Some do and some don't.  Capacitors would be a definite NO.  Let's look at this one a bit.  

You have new good quality capacitors installed in your crossovers.  Capacitors have exactly two qualities that effect the sound of your music that goes through them.  Those are capacitance (what we use them for) and ESR.  ESR is the sum of all other qualities of a capacitor other than capacitance expressed as an Equivalent Series Resistance.  ESR is a bad thing.  Good caps have ESR so low it is barely measurable, on the order of  a couple of hundredths of an ohm.  ESR is made up of stuff like the resistance of the leads and their connections to the foil inside the capacitor or stray inductance or dielectric absorption.

So, we put our new caps in the crossovers.  These new caps are right on the capacitance value the design calls for and the ESR is almost unmeasurably low.  What exactly of these two qualities do you expect to change with break-in?  And if either of them changed, why would you expect the sound to get better since the only way they could change is to go away from the "perfect" values they had to start with?  I hope any caps you use in your crossovers are good enough that they do not change at all for many years of use.

  

 

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Just because the computer thinks the woofers are able to dig 10Hz deeper, I wouldn't recommend going down there with crossovers if you can help it.  Glad you're enjoying the new hardware!  If you get bored, pop one of the old plastic diaphragms into one tweeter and compare with the new titanium one.  The difference won't be as subtle as you've said.

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