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Covid19 redux


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9 hours ago, dwilawyer said:

I'm no authority either, but outside of Lost Cause romantic historians, I think the overwhelming consensus is that whatever was necessary to shorten the war was legitimate, constrained only by funding of Cingress.

 

Whether that means declaring property in enemy hands emancipated, sinking southern passenger ships, using your house in Atlanta to quarter their troops and then burning it to the ground when they left, going from farm to farm and taking all of your crops to feed an army and destroying what they couldn't carry, spiking your cannons, destroying rail lines, all was acceptable because it would shorten the war.

If the North would have lost, I guarantee you all those tactics would have been unlawful.  I guess this means you don't believe in any higher principle than "might makes right."  

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10 hours ago, 314carpenter said:

In four U.S. state prisons, nearly 3,300 inmates test positive for coronavirus -- 96% without symptoms

 

Have you seen this? Did not see anyone post it. Seems as though we have ourselves a control group to study how many people can be infected with the Covid-19 virus and still be asymptomatic. This is my greatest fear. A whole world of carriers going about as if they are perfectly immune to anything, all the while shedding viruses upon all who they encounter. At least in the past if someone would cough, or sneeze they might take a day off, or at least not breathe on you. Now with the asymptomatics of the world being oblivious to the problem, I have to, at this point, reconsider everything.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-prisons-testing-in/in-four-u-s-state-prisons-nearly-3300-inmates-test-positive-for-coronavirus-96-without-symptoms-idUSKCN2270RX

Yes would say quite interesting.

Wonder what point would be to

antibodie test some. 

Headscratching numbers.

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1 minute ago, billybob said:
10 hours ago, 314carpenter said:

In four U.S. state prisons, nearly 3,300 inmates test positive for coronavirus -- 96% without symptoms

 

Have you seen this? Did not see anyone post it. Seems as though we have ourselves a control group to study how many people can be infected with the Covid-19 virus and still be asymptomatic. This is my greatest fear. A whole world of carriers going about as if they are perfectly immune to anything, all the while shedding viruses upon all who they encounter. At least in the past if someone would cough, or sneeze they might take a day off, or at least not breathe on you. Now with the asymptomatics of the world being oblivious to the problem, I have to, at this point, reconsider everything.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-prisons-testing-in/in-four-u-s-state-prisons-nearly-3300-inmates-test-positive-for-coronavirus-96-without-symptoms-idUSKCN2270RX

Yes would say quite interesting.

Wonder what point would be to

antibodie test some. 

Headscratching numbers.

Prison must be the safest place right now!

 

The article draws only one possibility - that there must be a massive population who has been infected and never had symptoms.   I can think of some other possibilities, such as utilizing test kits which don't work and give lots of false positives.  

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

Prison must be the safest place right now!

 

The article draws only one possibility - that there must be a massive population who has been infected and never had symptoms.   I can think of some other possibilities, such as utilizing test kits which don't work and give lots of false positives.  

 

 

If indeed these are the numbers then, this indeed bears watching.

Yes, maybe testing with a different

FDA approved test kit with a smaller sample may help. Walking carriers!?! Thanks

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10 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

Prison must be the safest place right now!

 

The article draws only one possibility - that there must be a massive population who has been infected and never had symptoms.   I can think of some other possibilities, such as utilizing test kits which don't work and give lots of false positives.  

 

 

You really couldn't ask for a better sample of people to get a true sense of mortality rate and frequency of severe symptoms. This is great news - hope it's true on a broader basis. I suspect it may be.

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3 minutes ago, BassMaykr said:

You really couldn't ask for a better sample of people to get a true sense of mortality rate and frequency of severe symptoms. This is great news - hope it's true on a broader basis. I suspect it may be.

It just boggles my mind. Questions like, when do these positive show symptoms. Eleven, 14 days, never?

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11 minutes ago, billybob said:

It just boggles my mind. Questions like, when do these positive show symptoms. Eleven, 14 days, never?

Suppose to answer my question, first validate their test. Possible

they all used the same test in each prison.

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19 minutes ago, billybob said:

It just boggles my mind. Questions like, when do these positive show symptoms. Eleven, 14 days, never?

It might be the perfect population to study, but the answers you seek will not be answered unless they've set a protocol to measure and record those statistics.

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3 hours ago, tube fanatic said:


According to this article, it was lab created:

 

https://www.newsweek.com/dr-fauci-backed-controversial-wuhan-lab-millions-us-dollars-risky-coronavirus-research-1500741

 

I can’t get very excited about proposed vaccines as the fast tracking means totally inadequate testing with no concern or knowledge regarding long term effects.   I would bet that the manufacturers will be protected by the total liability shield.  So when people begin showing all kinds of side effects they will not be able to sue. These side effects will be dismissed as “coincidence” as has been the case with Gardasil which has killed some girls and left others totally disabled.  
 

 

Maynard

I'm not seeing any connection at all being made in that article.

 

"Dr. Fauci did not respond to Newsweek's requests for comment. NIH responded with a statement that said in part: "Most emerging human viruses come from wildlife, and these represent a significant threat to public health and biosecurity in the US and globally, as demonstrated by the SARS epidemic of 2002-03, and the current COVID-19 pandemic.... scientific research indicates that there is no evidence that suggests the virus was created in a laboratory."

 

There is out right now on Netflix, a documentary about Covid-19 (In top ten US section) that shows the following activity:

 

"The NIH research consisted of two parts. The first part began in 2014 and involved surveillance of bat coronaviruses, and had a budget of $3.7 million. The program funded Shi Zheng-Li, a virologist at the Wuhan lab, and other researchers to investigate and catalogue bat coronaviruses in the wild. This part of the project was completed in 2019."

 

Also in that documentary it showed how they classify the virus strains they find in bats (paraphrasing, no big deal, medium risk, and oh man, if this gets out we are going to have a pandemic on out hands and we better start working on a solution now for if/when that happens).

 

"Three years later, though—in December 2017—the NIH ended the moratorium and the second phase of the NIAID project, which included the gain-of-function research, began. The NIH established a framework for determining how the research would go forward: scientists have to get approval from a panel of experts, who would decide whether the risks were justified."

 

@tube fanatic I read that article twice and there is nothing in there that says anything about SARS-CoV-2 being created in a lab other than some unnamed "official" said it was possible. The article doesn't conclude anywhere that SARS-CoV-2 was created in a lab.

 

It does say that "gain of function" research is controversial because if you have an accident and release a pathogen that has been release after gain of function you could have developed a very deadly pathogen much more deadly, much more difficult to stop. The article also discusses the controversy among scientists in this field about whether the benefits possibly derived from gain of use methods are outweighed by the associated risks.

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55 minutes ago, billybob said:

Yes would say quite interesting.

Wonder what point would be to

antibodie test some. 

Headscratching numbers.

------the article doesnt say whether these prison inmates are men or women , but usually men  do a lot of weight training ,and they are fed great food ,    they are all in relatively good physical shape , they got nothing else to do , but to train   and in theory , a stronger person with a stronger immune system has a better chance to survive , the only problem , is if all these cases worsen , then it is going to be catastrophic ---

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10 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

It might be the perfect population to study, but the answers you seek will not be answered unless they've set a protocol to measure and record those statistics.

And we are all paying for it, all of the medical treatment, supplies, equipment, everything. Might as well study it under a proper protocol. 

 

Jeff: I heard three was a pretty big outbreak in Harris County Jail. Any word on that. Did you watch any of the live TRO hearings on Executive Order not allowing personal recognizance bonds? It was pretty interesting.

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1 minute ago, 000 said:

------the article doesnt say whether these prison inmates are men or women , but usually men  do a lot of weight training ,and they are fed great food ,    they are all in relatively good physical shape , they got nothing else to do , but to train   and in theory , a stronger person with a stronger immune system has a better chance to survive , the only problem , is if all these cases worsen , then it is going to be catastrophic ---

Yes, there is that too. Strange brew to consider.

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1 minute ago, billybob said:

Yes, there is that too. Strange brew to consider.

Every year you area incarcerated, on average, reduces your life expectancy by two (2) years. That is well studied and documented, and relates mostly to the high fat diets they generally give. I don't know how they would factor that in, if at all, in a retrospective study.

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I'm sure it's been mentioned in the "Bad Carl Thread" that went away, but there have been a number of studies by Stanford, USC, another in Florida and various other medical facilities that all show similar results as to much larger percentages of the population that have had the infection, but never had any of the symptoms but test positive for the antibodies.  Obviously, using those numbers, the mortality rate is substantially lower than other numbers that have been reported when testing only groups with symptoms.

 

I'm not getting in the mud to debate what all of the information means to you personally and how you will proceed as it's obvious that there's a huge distance between those that are already working and have been and those that want to "shelter in place" for whatever period of time, to each their own.  My sales and office personnel are coming back in Monday, but myself and 2 other people that do contracting work, have been working the entire time.  I'm of the belief that this is not going away and you've had it or you're going to get it unless you are of high risk and can remain isolated for an indefinite period of time.   

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13 minutes ago, dwilawyer said:

Every year you area incarcerated, on average, reduces your life expectancy by two (2) years. That is well studied and documented, and relates mostly to the high fat diets they generally give. I don't know how they would factor that in, if at all, in a retrospective study.

Dang, never heard that statistic.

Bad neighborhood to live in.

Yes, they may have enough to

Crunch to get a general population

Idea. Just a mind blower to know if test valid, the number of asymptomatic.

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2 hours ago, DizRotus said:

I too have paid close attention to this issue, especially after watching The Innocence Files (TIF) on Netflix.  I don’t wish COVID-19 on anyone, including those incarcerated.  

 

TIF caused me to reflect on those defendants I successfully prosecuted to question whether any could have been innocent.  The answer is no.  The requirement to do justice as a prosecutor, rather than to get convictions, made it so that valuable Circuit Court felony jury trial time was not wasted on cases with serious flaws.  Even in those days, the early 80s, I questioned the accuracy of eyewitness testimony.  Without corroborating circumstantial evidence, I would not take a case to trial solely on the basis on eyewitness testimony.  In the days before DNA evidence, corroborating circumstantial evidence consisted of fingerprints, ballistics evidence, etc.  DNA evidence was in its infancy. TIF cast serious doubt on the “science” of bite mark evidence.  Fortunately, I never had a case that relied on bite mark evidence.

That series is a must see in my opinion. The head of the Conviction Integrity Unit at the Philadelphia DA's Office  featured in one or two of the latter episodes is a good friend. Defense attorney in central Texas, then Dallas CIU and then Philly CIU.

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As my wife and I both work at a facility which cares for people with intellectual and developmental disabilities, we have been working the whole time. our main center has been closed, except for a few staff who must be on premises to do their work. I work in IT, and with no one else around the building could catch up on projects and help to make sure those now working from home could function.

 

We serve approx. 1200 clients, some who live in group homes (under two different state programs) and some who are in their own homes (living with a parent or relative. We have approximately 800 staff. The only ones tested (staff or clients) are ones who have had some symptoms. Those tested have been negative. Clients have basically been sheltering in place. If any of them were to get Covid-19, it would probably be devastating, as the all have various health issues.

 

My wife and I both have been very careful, change clothes and shower when we get home every day, use masks and gloves, don't go out unless necessary. Water bill is a little higher, since we are doing a lot more laundry. We both have shoes that can go through the wash, too, but we've always removed our shoes anyway when entering our house. That comes from my wife's Asian background.

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12 minutes ago, Marvel said:

As my wife and I both work at a facility which cares for people with intellectual and developmental disabilities, we have been working the whole time. our main center has been closed, except for a few staff who must be on premises to do their work. I work in IT, and with no one else around the building could catch up on projects and help to make sure those now working from home could function.

 

We serve approx. 1200 clients, some who live in group homes (under two different state programs) and some who are in their own homes (living with a parent or relative. We have approximately 800 staff. The only ones tested (staff or clients) are ones who have had some symptoms. Those tested have been negative. Clients have basically been sheltering in place. If any of them were to get Covid-19, it would probably be devastating, as the all have various health issues.

 

My wife and I both have been very careful, change clothes and shower when we get home every day, use masks and gloves, don't go out unless necessary. Water bill is a little higher, since we are doing a lot more laundry. We both have shoes that can go through the wash, too, but we've always removed our shoes anyway when entering our house. That comes from my wife's Asian background.

Edit: Nevermined you answered it in 2nd paragraph of your post.

 

Bruce: What is the status of the testing there (I understand you may not be able to comment about results). Are you able to get testing for the residents/patients, for yourselves? 

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