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Covid19 redux


Bosco-d-gama

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47 minutes ago, billybob said:

Based on the results, the Chinese rocket should not have been launched. It is these incidents that can become accidents launching us into yet another fracass with China.

There’s a known generalization to the character of Chinese engineering. They cut corners to an unsafe degree. That’s the well understood mantra of “made in China”. The failure and poor quality of Chinese products happens so commonly that it is expected and consumers worldwide avoid Chinese manufactured goods. They accept the disgusting unhygienic ‘wet markets’ as workable. As evidenced by this rocket launch China has no reservations about intentionally placing citizens of other countries in peril. So with this as the foundation of Chinese quality control imagine how they deal with truly deadly pathogens. Sadly these Coronaviruses are indigenous to China. So nature has given China access and China dropped the ball, one way or another.

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2 minutes ago, Bosco-d-gama said:

The failure and poor quality of Chinese products happens so commonly that it is expected and consumers worldwide avoid Chinese manufactured goods.

While many of your critiques are well-founded, this statement could not be further from the truth.  Demand for Chinese products has proliferated beyond imagination - so much so, that now, we are seeing politicians talking about stepping in and interfering with China's supply of products to the US.  Consumers simply want more and more, although they will often say otherwise.  It's not much different than all the talk about boycotting Wal-Mart.  Big talk; little action.  Even though we want more and more Chinese products, our politicians are going to fix that for us.  I wonder how all that will work out.  

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2 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

Even though we want more and more Chinese products,

 

My take on this is we don't want more Chinese products, we (as a society) want cheaper products.....and China happens to be lowest cost provider.

 

I for one, have on numerous occasions paid more to specifically avoid something made in  China.  It can make it difficult to do so... as it seems "everything" is now made there.  (I was after some ratchet binders for my backhoe....can find plenty of them but all stamped made in china, I wanted something domestic)

 

My wife the other day made a comment that our politicians are going to try to pull manufacturing away from China....  I rolled my eyes....  it might be a noble thought but in the end it will again, come down to cost.  If we moved say, 50% of the manufacturing back to our shores.....it would only take time before it eroded back to China (most likely) or somewhere else where the costs are lower than here.

 

Our society can be so short sighted at times.

 

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7 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

While many of your critiques are well-founded, this statement could not be further from the truth.  Demand for Chinese products has proliferated beyond imagination - so much so, that now, we are seeing politicians talking about stepping in and interfering with China's supply of products to the US.  Consumers simply want more and more, although they will often say otherwise.  It's not much different than all the talk about boycotting Wal-Mart.  Big talk; little action.  Even though we want more and more Chinese products, our politicians are going to fix that for us.  I wonder how all that will work out.  

Because they’re ‘cheap’, not because they’re well made.

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1 minute ago, Coytee said:

 

My take on this is we don't want more Chinese products, we (as a society) want cheaper products.....and China happens to be lowest cost provider.

 

I for one, have on numerous occasions paid more to specifically avoid something made in  China.  It can make it difficult to do so... as it seems "everything" is now made there.  (I was after some ratchet binders for my backhoe....can find plenty of them but all stamped made in china, I wanted something domestic)

 

My wife the other day made a comment that our politicians are going to try to pull manufacturing away from China....  I rolled my eyes....  it might be a noble thought but in the end it will again, come down to cost.  If we moved say, 50% of the manufacturing back to our shores.....it would only take time before it eroded back to China (most likely) or somewhere else where the costs are lower than here.

 

Our society can be so short sighted at times.

 

That's right.  There is a presumption that if we move production back to the US, the quality will improve.  I don't think so.  I think the quality will match precisely with the consumers' demand - i.e., cheap, cheap, cheap!

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4 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

That's right.  There is a presumption that if we move production back to the US, the quality will improve.  I don't think so.  I think the quality will match precisely with the consumers' demand - i.e., cheap, cheap, cheap!

 

I agree with you along with the dichotomy that it will be cheap, cheap, cheap or, expensive as heck for something that DOES maintain a higher quality. 

 

Consumers (my experience) don't care as much about quality than they do cost.  I'm wired a bit differently....  I'd rather pay more up front and get something that's worthy.

 

I will pick on my wife a bit here who's been influenced by her brother.

 

She'll now be happy to drive to Harbor Freight and buy (for me) say a 1" open end wrench that might cost her (I have no clue) $5-10.  I'd rather buy the same thing from Snapon, Mac....  and pay $45 for the "same thing" which I'm sure you know where I'm going.....  is the same thing until you use it and it either snaps or strips something out.....  Some things in life you do NOT want to cheap out on and in my opinion, tools is one of those things.  "But Look Richard......  you can buy a tool box FULL of those tools for $150 whereas YOU (insinuated dumbazz) are paying that much for just TWO stupid wrenches!!!

 

Yeah....  but I've had my tools since I started accumulating them since the late 70's and they're still going strong.....  how many sets of that cheap junk has your brother bought??  Do it once, hurt once and be done.

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

While many of your critiques are well-founded, this statement could not be further from the truth.  Demand for Chinese products has proliferated beyond imagination - so much so, that now, we are seeing politicians talking about stepping in and interfering with China's supply of products to the US.  Consumers simply want more and more, although they will often say otherwise.  It's not much different than all the talk about boycotting Wal-Mart.  Big talk; little action.  Even though we want more and more Chinese products, our politicians are going to fix that for us.  I wonder how all that will work out.  

True but if there is a demand does not take away from the fact about quality and lack of standards. That would be like saying some drugs hurt and kill people but it's ok because the demand is high and many push to keep them coming.

 

Two different things, no doubt the demand is there and also the lack of quality control. There are many companies who have manufacturing in china and employees there also  from the company here to try to monitor production. Random test are done on batches of products made and all of a sudden they start to fail, there checked out to find the factory has made a small change to a part and this is causing the failures and then it is reversed to keep the contract. But it always happens to save money and increase the profit of the plant not knowing or caring about the end product, it's not there problem, just to pass inspection is all they care about. Even to the point of being dangerous, like lead paint on kids toys or very slight changes in the design which can make things fail and hurt people, but not there problem after it ships.

 

The way Walmart works is they go to a company and say we want to buy x amount of these but for us to do that you need to give it to us at this price. What then happens is they take a current model and strip some features off of it or slightly change a design to get to the price point to make the deal. Look at many things sold at Walmart, take that model number and search for it anywhere else, in many cases your not going to find it anywhere else. It may look exactly like another model but it is missing some features or just slightly designed different, but usually made to appear exactly like another model.

 

Both sides are playing a game, the foreign factories and the companies hiring them, neither in some cases care about the quality of the end product, it's mostly all disposable anyway, sell it and worry about complaints and warranty problems later. Make it last long enough to cover our butts, hopefully.

 

.

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1 minute ago, Coytee said:

 

I agree with you along with the dichotomy that it will be cheap, cheap, cheap or, expensive as heck for something that DOES maintain a higher quality. 

 

Consumers (my experience) don't care as much about quality than they do cost.  I'm wired a bit differently....  I'd rather pay more up front and get something that's worthy.

 

I will pick on my wife a bit here who's been influenced by her brother.

 

She'll now be happy to drive to Harbor Freight and buy (for me) say a 1" open end wrench that might cost her (I have no clue) $5-10.  I'd rather buy the same thing from Snapon, Mac....  and pay $45 for the "same thing" which I'm sure you know where I'm going.....  is the same thing until you use it and it either snaps or strips something out.....  Some things in life you do NOT want to cheap out on and in my opinion, tools is one of those things.  "But Look Richard......  you can buy a tool box FULL of those tools for $150 whereas YOU (insinuated dumbazz) are paying that much for just TWO stupid wrenches!!!

 

Yeah....  but I've had my tools since I started accumulating them since the late 70's and they're still going strong.....  how many sets of that cheap junk has your brother bought??  Do it once, hurt once and be done.

 

 

I'm on the fence when it comes to that.  I read reviews quite a lot before deciding.  In some cases, I see no correlation between price and quality.  Take toasters, for example.  I was looking for a new toaster on Amazon the other day.  It doesn't seem to matter if the toaster is $20 or $400, there seems to be a set percentage (about 10%) of 1-star reviews with typical complaints that the coils burn-out, the handle doesn't stay down or never pops up.  

 

I wish it was so easy so that you could get what you think you are getting for the price you are willing to pay.  

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I wasn’t surprised to see the chest freezer I ordered, received yesterday was yes, made in China. I was trying to calculate how may virus’ 10 cubic feet might hold? So I filled it with bleach and Lysol just to be safe —

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The craftsmen that made everything so well in the former USA before nafta destroyed our manufacturing are gone now. They weren't able to teach greenhorns any of their craft or skills. Don't think it will ever be the same as it was even if we can get 50% of goods made here again in the future.

Loved Ronald Reagan, tempered with hatred with forever having sucky towels that I spend $500 on every five years `cause washing them in cold like they say they change colors and fray in two years when ten complete sets are for two people... two sets washed a week. My Cannon Royal Velvet I bought in the 80s lasted until about 2005 before they frayed and I washed them in hot water every time.

 

"They" always mention the rust belt messed up by nafta. The entire southeast's mill industry was decimated by it and the darn "experts" from up north never cared!

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2 minutes ago, richieb said:

I was trying to calculate how may virus’ 10 cubic feet might hold?

Without doing the math, only picture how tall and the diameter of a 5 gallon bucket: How many cubic feet would you guess a 5 gallon bucket to hold?

(I have never, including myself, ever heard anyone get it close to right)

After guessing, do the math... It is one that is a teaser.

 

1 gallon = 231 cubic inches. 

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5 minutes ago, Woofers and Tweeters said:

Still have the same one? 

 

I do, JCB 1550-B, currently in front of house with loader resting on a (pretty large) rock so support arms are out of way and I can reach into engine bay to remove/repair steering pump and replace 2 hoses.  

 

Have repaired parts back, now waiting to finish work so I can put back together.  (probably tomorrow or weekend if not)

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34 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

While many of your critiques are well-founded, this statement could not be further from the truth.  Demand for Chinese products has proliferated beyond imagination - so much so, that now, we are seeing politicians talking about stepping in and interfering with China's supply of products to the US.  Consumers simply want more and more, although they will often say otherwise.  It's not much different than all the talk about boycotting Wal-Mart.  Big talk; little action.  Even though we want more and more Chinese products, our politicians are going to fix that for us.  I wonder how all that will work out.  

I would add that it is not ‘consumer’ demand but business profit margin opportunity. How many ‘consumers’ waltz into any business and ‘ask’ for Chinese products (food products aside)?

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