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Two Sub Questions


Islander

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I hope I can get some good advice from members who pay more attention to subs than I do.

 

Since 2005, I’ve been using a Paradigm PW-2100 V.2 subwoofer.  It’s a ported 10” 400 watts RMS sub with a 23 Hz. (DIN) bottom end rating.  At the time, I was using a pair of Audio Logic bass reflex speakers, driven by a 2005 100 Wpc Yamaha RX-V750 receiver, but since 2008, I’ve been using a few versions of La Scalas, from a 1974 pair of 1st-gen models, later updated to JubScala spec, to a pair of 2007 La Scala/JubScala IIs, complete with K-402 tweeter horns with K-691 drivers.

 

Since 2008, the power source has been a pair of Yamaha MX-D1 dual-mono amps, each making 500 Wpc, for a total of 1000 watts per channel, in a horizontal bi-amp configuration.  They drive the main Front Left and Right speakers.  The 2016 RX-A2060 makes 140 Watts per channel, but is driving only the 4 Surround speakers. The sub seemed barely adequate with the JubScalas, so I finally decided to upgrade.  This Wednesday, I bought a Paradigm Seismic 110 sub.  It’s a bit unusual-looking, having a cylindrical aluminum housing, instead of the usual boxy wooden or MDF type.  It’s a sealed 10” 850 watts RMS sub with a 17 Hz. (DIN) bottom end rating.  Surprisingly, it’s smaller than the PW-2100, which is good, because the space between the Left speaker and the electronics stack is only about 17”.  If there was more room, I might have considered a 15” sub.

 

So far, I’m just breaking it in, and I’m looking forward to using the optional ARC kit to correct for any room issues, or at least that’s what the ads promise.  It does seem to have more slam than the less powerful sub.  I haven’t been listening at high volume lately, because the neighbours are not at work in the afternoon in the current situation, which is the time when I like to listen to loud music.

 

Okay, here is the first question:  should I hook up the older sub (the receiver has Sub Front and Sub Rear RCA sockets), and use both together, after matching their levels, or with there be a serious timbre mismatch, meaning that if I want to run 2 subs, they should be a matching pair?  Or would the difference not be that noticeable?

 

Here is the second question:  the Paradigm sub and Yamaha receiver manuals both recommend placing the second sub behind the listening position, while the expert at the local high-end shop, where I bought both subs, tells me that both subs should be near or between the main Front speakers.  What do you recommend?

 

Thanks in advance for any information that leads to convincingly realistic and enjoyable sound!

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First thing, expecting  a sealed sub to play with horn loaded models is not going to work well unless you buy multiples.

 

Subwoofers should be placed where they work best, salesman guessing is only just that, a guess.

 

Save yourself some headache and Buy something horn loaded to go with horn loaded speakers, you will be happy you did in the end.

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I only wish I had gone the horn loaded subwoofer route earlier......would have saved me a lot of headaches. At least for two channel playback. HT was much easier.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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I have two near identical subs. With the addition of the second one (I bought both used and it took 18 months to find the second one) I placed them at the front under my Heresy. The bass was much more balanced in the room. Unfortunately I have not been able to try moving them around. I suggest a good glass of scotch, your favourite percussion music and an enjoyable evening of listening to the two subs in different locations... what could possibly go wrong? You may be surprised with what you hear and you’ll enjoy the scotch!

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Update the thread if you can / when you have a chance to try things out.  I'm interested in placement in particular as I will try various placements later when I move to Victoria.  Drop me a PM if not in this thread.

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I’m still breaking in the sub, and waiting for the ARC kit to arrive.  It includes a microphone and some other bits, and the microphone plugs into the sub.  It’s claimed to be able to tune the sub to make up for any issues with the room itself.

 

Meanwhile, I’m listening to Radio Paradise on Net Radio.  The Peter Gabriel song Burn You Up Burn You Down just came on, and it’s the first tune that I’ve heard that has REALLY DEEP bass.  Now I’ve heard the new sub do something that the old sub could never do.

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On 5/2/2020 at 8:38 AM, jason str said:

First thing, expecting  a sealed sub to play with horn loaded models is not going to work well unless you buy multiples.

 

Subwoofers should be placed where they work best, salesman guessing is only just that, a guess.

 

Save yourself some headache and Buy something horn loaded to go with horn loaded speakers, you will be happy you did in the end.


Where may I buy a Horn Loaded SW?

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On 5/2/2020 at 6:38 AM, jason str said:

First thing, expecting  a sealed sub to play with horn loaded models is not going to work well unless you buy multiples.

 

Subwoofers should be placed where they work best, salesman guessing is only just that, a guess.

 

Save yourself some headache and Buy something horn loaded to go with horn loaded speakers, you will be happy you did in the end.

 

Neither sub is horn loaded, or were you referring to the speakers?  Anyway, a horn loaded subwoofer has always sounded intriguing, but they all seem to be DIY construction.  I live in an apartment, and have only the most basic woodworking skills, so the DIY route doesn’t work for me, plus space is an issue.

 

 Are there any reasonably powerful self-powered subs for sale that won’t cost a ton of money and won’t be so big that I have to move everything in the room to be able to fit it in?  Have you any suggestions?

 

As for the salesman, he’s a pretty sharp guy who works at a shop whose three main brands seem to be McIntosh, B&W, and Paradigm.  He sold me the first sub back in 2005, and has always had good tips for me.  But yes, he’d have to at least see the room to give me something better than a very well-experienced guess.

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9 hours ago, Islander said:

 

Neither sub is horn loaded, or were you referring to the speakers?  Anyway, a horn loaded subwoofer has always sounded intriguing, but they all seem to be DIY construction.  I live in an apartment, and have only the most basic woodworking skills, so the DIY route doesn’t work for me, plus space is an issue.

 

 Are there any reasonably powerful self-powered subs for sale that won’t cost a ton of money and won’t be so big that I have to move everything in the room to be able to fit it in?  Have you any suggestions?

 

As for the salesman, he’s a pretty sharp guy who works at a shop whose three main brands seem to be McIntosh, B&W, and Paradigm.  He sold me the first sub back in 2005, and has always had good tips for me.  But yes, he’d have to at least see the room to give me something better than a very well-experienced guess.

 

A Table Tuba is not expensive to purchase and if you have neighbors to worry about even the single 8 version is a potent subwoofer.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Sancho Panza said:


Didn’t mean PLANs; complete & ready to listen.

 

Take a better look, these are BFM cabinet builders who will build you a cabinet of choice and have it shipped just like anybody else, there will be wait for construction and delivery.

 

A copy of the plans are included with purchase.

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I checked Bill Fitzmaurice’s site, and while there are cabinet makers listed, there appeared to be nowhere to buy a ready-to-go sub, complete with driver and amplifier.  Besides, a coffee table design doesn’t work for me, since I need all the space between the sofa and the speakers to be clear.  Danley’s site didn’t have any subs that were a practical size for me, either.

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37 minutes ago, Islander said:

I checked Bill Fitzmaurice’s site, and while there are cabinet makers listed, there appeared to be nowhere to buy a ready-to-go sub, complete with driver and amplifier.  Besides, a coffee table design doesn’t work for me, since I need all the space between the sofa and the speakers to be clear.  Danley’s site didn’t have any subs that were a practical size for me, either.

 

If sending out an e-mail or few is too much work just go to Parts Express and buy 4 of those Dayton subs, double them up in the 2 best performing spots in the room would be a good start.

 

Just to be clear. A substantial set of speakers needs substantial subwoofer(s).

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5 hours ago, jason str said:

 

Take a better look, these are BFM cabinet builders who will build you a cabinet of choice and have it shipped just like anybody else, there will be wait for construction and delivery.

 

A copy of the plans are included with purchase.


None near me.

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