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Klipsch Heresy IV vs Heresy II

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I could tell right away when I mixed up a brand new pair of Kappa 15Cs with a well enjoyed pair that was several years old while swapping out parts in various speaker projects. Thought I had them wired out of phase compared to the performance prior to the swap.

 

I actually compared the two pairs to see if there were different markings on them and they had revised the product “to serve me better” (pfffft!)

 

Nope, exact same speakers. Except one pair had “broken in” and the other was fresh out of the box.

 

I would not judge any new speaker before a solid month of play. Especially BIG woofers that only move mere millimetres to produce heavy decibels. 

 

Thought I had read over the years of various reputable speaker manufacturers stating in the manual to allow for break in periods of several dozens of hours.

 

 

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Well, there are members on this thread that can save you time and money because they have done as much and more. SuperHeresy comes to mind. You might start a topic but, plenty in the archive.

No, I can tell you without hearing them that, as awesome as my Heresy is, the IV is awesomer still.

A whole new experience, I am certain. Why, because, review s and owners here say as much or more. Good enough!

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To test the "break-in" hypothesis I suggest doing the following:

 

After unboxing a new pair of speakers, let ONE speaker play through the night.  This can be easily accomplished using the balance control.  ..Come morning, play a song in MONO with both speakers set side-by-side and switch b/w them using the balance control.  Do you hear a difference???

 

I did this with Spica TC-50's, PSB Stratus Minis, Vandersteen 3A Sigs, and finally Paradigm S8 v2s.  ..All were purchased new.  ..Neither I, nor ANYONE in my family could hear one IOTA of difference b/w the speakers.  Speaker break-in is a myth.  Manufactures (some, not all) allow it to persist b/c it helps to mitigate returns from people who aren't bowled over by how their brand new speakers sound.  "Don't do any critical listening for 50 hours" serves a purpose for manufacturers.  ..They know that after that period of time your ears will have adjusted to your new speakers and the impulse to return them will have passed.  And you'll probably have re-read the great reviews that led you to the purchase in the first place and have gone to web forums such as this where people will reassure you that they are much better than what you had.

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25 minutes ago, ODS123 said:

Speaker break-in is a myth.  Manufactures (some, not all) allow it to persist b/c it helps to mitigate returns "Don't do any critical listening for 50 hours" serves a purpose for manufacturers.  ..They know that after that period of time your ears will have adjusted to your new speakers and the impulse to return them will have passed.  And you'll probably have re-read the great reviews that led you to the purchase in the first place and have gone to web forums such as this where people will reassure you that they are much better than what you had.

 

I believe what you are saying here is more than likely true / mostly true however I disagree that break in time in general is a myth as I have experienced it myself several times. As to how long it takes I'll let others debate that.

 

Ears adjusting to new speakers is also very real and can happen fairly quickly-- I was running a pair of HIP's with CT-120 tweets, A55-g mids and Crites rebuilt crossovers and they were the cats meow minus bass, could never get good bass out of them for some reason. I then picked up a set of RF-7 II's and was excited to check them out boy was I disappointed they were so muddy sounding lacking detail compared to the HIP's it was really pretty bad only thing they had going for them was bass. After a couple of days listening to them though they sounded "fine," like I forgot how detailed and clear the HIP's were.

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6 minutes ago, jjptkd said:

I was running a pair of HIP's with CT-120 tweets, A55-g mids and Crites rebuilt crossovers and they were the cats meow minus bass, could never get good bass out of them for some reason.

You likely know the answer to this, but....even with those nice new components you still had the HIP woofer in them (I think) which gave up lower extension for increased potential output.  If you were to keep the woofer in them, you could add some foam to the cabinet interior and realize some increased bass.

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If woofer gasket is paper and it needs little break in, imo. If the gasket of the H4 woofer is rubber or foam, imo the low frequencies may evolve as the rubber comes to room temperature, and is stretched for the first time for, with elasticity setting in. Depending on ambient factors like temp and air humidity this may take one up to several hours. 

 

Anyway, here is Klipsch official view on break in: https://www.klipsch.com/blog/how-and-why-to-break-in-your-new-speakers

 

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2 hours ago, ODS123 said:

And you'll probably have re-read the great reviews that led you to the purchase in the first place and have gone to web forums such as this where people will reassure you that they are much better than what you had.

 

That had very little to do with my decision, but thanks for playing.....

 

 

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16 hours ago, ODS123 said:

..........

 

As for break-in.  ..I wouldn't count on it.  THere's no way it takes 40 hours for speakers to break in.  Bob Crites, who manufacturers replacement parts (incl. drivers, crossovers, etc..) and is regarded/ respected as an authority on all-things Klipsch, said that the most it takes for drivers to break is about an hour.  40 hours is totally redic.  

 

Actually you are incorrect.  My H IVs were the first speakers I've bought new in about 35 years.  After an hour I thought I had made a mistake.  So, I found some dub step and other bassy music online and played them 24H/day, at moderate levels with max bass boost.  After 3 days they sounded more like what I heard in Hope.  After 7 days, they sounded like Roy's demo speaker and I quit the foolishness. 

 

I did not believe in speaker break-in before this.  I still think some people/situations need some ear adjustment time, but for woofers, an extended break-in is real.  Klipsch even does a break-in on woofers by running them at a low frequency for a handful of hours before testing. 

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Angelaudio,

 

I'm not convinced the larger tube amp returns better bass because of power.  It has a different arcitecture.  Low powered tube amps, typically SET, as yours appears, tend to vary frequency response by impedance and often roll off the low bass.  If yours is doing that, it could explain your results. 

 

I will take my H IVs over H1s or HIPs (with solder terminal -Vs in all of them) whenever possible.  And did. 

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15 hours ago, billybob said:

Well, there are members on this thread that can save you time and money because they have done as much and more. SuperHeresy comes to mind. You might start a topic but, plenty in the archive.

No, I can tell you without hearing them that, as awesome as my Heresy is, the IV is awesomer still.

A whole new experience, I am certain. Why, because, review s and owners here say as much or more. Good enough!

 

Not saying the new IV doesn't have improvements and certainly everyone is entitled to opinions, but I'd like to share a little something here. I noticed that my Heresy II placement video only has 3 views and the Heresy IV video has 23. That to me indicates bias and that fewer care what the II has to offer in the video by comparison, granted you can't tell everything just by a video, but the efficiency difference is noticeable in the videos. My comments with regard to efficiency were entirely ignored. Klipsch claims the new IV is 99db efficient and I believe this is incorrect on Klipsch's part in fact somebody in Audiogon said that's because the box on the IV is bigger after seeing my video. The owner of the IV's who loaned them to me said the same thing. If you freeze the frame in each video between the IV and the II placement videos, you will see that the chicken head volume knob on the right side of the Aretha preamp is pointed in the exact same position. It's pointed at the upper left philips-head faceplate screw if you freeze the frame and zoom in. What bothers me about all the hype regarding the IV is enthusiasts are not addressing the efficiency either with regard to the type of amp being used with the speaker and also how volume can affect the bass. I'm often listening to my 2.3 watt per channel Decware Zen amp. It's quiet and holographic sounding which is beautiful with the Heresy II and jazz at medium music levels. It's easier for the Decware UFO Zen to drive a more efficient II. IMO, there's often just a lot of hype and marketing audio enthusiasts get caught up in. I realize Klipsch has definitely made some improvements to the bass with the IV, but once again I do feel that some aspects all to often get taken out of context. 

 

As far as the break-in is concerned, I'm not saying Andrew's video here is the definitive review on the subject, BUT he does make mention with regard to what appears to be some sort of definitive scientific paper that was written on the subject and addresses each concern step by step. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, JohnA said:

Angelaudio,

 

I'm not convinced the larger tube amp returns better bass because of power.  It has a different arcitecture.  Low powered tube amps, typically SET, as yours appears, tend to vary frequency response by impedance and often roll off the low bass.  If yours is doing that, it could explain your results. 

 

I will take my H IVs over H1s or HIPs (with solder terminal -Vs in all of them) whenever possible.  And did. 

 

 

What I meant is that it appears to me that after comparing the II to the IV using my Bob Latino ST-70, that I need to drive the IV's higher in volume to get the woofers to drive them deeper before the bigger bass becomes more audible. Maybe what's happening is that because my H II are obviously more efficient than the IV that the little Decware amp has an easier time driving the bass on the II. I'm obviously by no means qualified to know that's what's really going on. I'm just going based on what I appear to hear when comparing them. For example when I played "Loves Theme" by Barry White, I dropped my jaw at the bass in the new IV when I pumped up the volume. It was chest pounding. With my H II, I hear it, but I don't feel it like I do in the IV at the higher volume levels . This may also have something to do with the acoustics of my room as one response explained but once again I find it rather odd that more experienced reviewers don't seem to address or explain things. Instead it's just.... the IV is better. Better in what ways specifically and why or why not? A friend once said we call it confirmation bias. 

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And to add to Andrew Robinson's comments above, I'll repeat that Bob Crites, noted Klipsch authority and manufacturer of heralded upgrades (including drivers) also says Break-in, beyond an hour for large drivers, is BS.  ..Of course it is.

 

If a manufacturer knew their speakers sounded better after 30 hours of play, then they would make 30 hours of play part of the production process. 

 

And be doubly skeptical of anyone claiming electronic components or (sigh) cable have a break-in period.

 

People offering mere anecdotal accounts of "I didn't think I'd hear a difference, but then I did..." are not very convincing.  ...There can be a myriad of reasons why speakers or other components "sound" different from day to day, including one's mood, sinus congestion (gross), environmental noise, etc...   But breakin?  ..Sorry, but not so, IHMO.

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58 minutes ago, JohnA said:

 

After 3 days they sounded more like what I heard in Hope.  After 7 days, they sounded like Roy's demo speaker

 

thank you

 

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19 hours ago, jimjimbo said:

It has taken somewhere in the range of about 40 hours to get my H4s "broken in".

thank you -

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Woofer break-in is a known. The time it takes depends on the woofer's mechanical/electrical compliance I would guess.

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Back to the title of this topic then,

why compare two models from the same line with similar yet different sound signatures.

This versus one or the other or

what then. Sure if you have time in your schedule, have a go.

Just make certain that your test or experiment relies upon equal footing from the start, and ends

the same way with no deviation.

To what end or unbiased conclusion did it come to.

Did it meet the criteria that you

we're looking for. What did it prove to your reasons for doing this comparison.

To what good, and to what, or whose advantage is a result of any conclusion, if any. To what purpose did it serve, if any.

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1 hour ago, angelaudio said:

I noticed that my Heresy II placement video only has 3 views and the Heresy IV video has 23. That to me indicates bias and that fewer care what the II has to offer in the video by comparison

Maybe but more have heard/owned the Heresy IIs and skipped straight to the video of the Heresy IVs.  I kind of did the same thing because of the hundreds of times I have listened to my Heresy IIs.  I went back and carefully observed both videos.  The mids/highs in the Heresy IVs seem to be hotter than the lows and definitely more detailed/transparent than in the video of the Heresy IIs.  The Heresy IIs mids/highs appear to more laid back with the lows possessing that sealed cabinet thumpy midbass that I ebjoy with my Heresy IIs and Heresy Is.

 

Bill

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1 hour ago, angelaudio said:

I noticed that my Heresy II placement video only has 3 views and the Heresy IV video has 23. That to me indicates bias and that fewer care what the II has to offer

That's just not true.  The H2 has been out for decades, the H4 less than a year.  Most "Klipsch people" know the H2 and have likely heard them many times.  Not many have heard the H4.  I think it's mostly a matter of people wanting to see and hear about a new product.  Bias?

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I will certainly defer to the man, @Chief bonehead to see if he has any opinion (or maybe even lab test results) regarding break in, and perhaps specifically regarding the H4.

 

Or, maybe not.....

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