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Klipsch Heresy IV vs Heresy II

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3 hours ago, DizRotus said:

 

Couldn’t agree more.  At a neighbor’s BBQ, his Sonos speaker sounded great.  My mother-in-law’s Bose Wave Radio CD player was perfect for her in her small living room.  At times, my DIY boom box with Radio Shack 40-1197 (FE 103) drivers sounds unbeatable, especially outdoors.

 

I’d rather listen to good music on a clock radio than a bad recording of crappy music on a superb system.

 

Totally agree..   ...My grand parents got as much joy from music as anyone I know and they listened to it on the least expensive Realistic Carinette all-in-one system.  One speaker was at ear level, the other on the floor.   

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Many people, me included are as enamored with the gear itself as with the music. Some maybe more, maybe me ?

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34 minutes ago, ODS123 said:

This is why when patients participate in clinical trial they are (generally) NOT told whether they are being given the control or study medication.

 

 ..That there is a gross lack of validity testing in MUCH of what you read here AND other audio websites.  That one should ALWAYS consider the context.  

 

First: Again, this was not a clinical trial, or anything even remotely like one. This was a typical audio presentation to a very sophisticated audience. Were there biases? Of course. Both directions.

Second: This was not an infomercial. Your comments tend to imply that there was the virtual equivalent of an "Applause" sign that lit up every time that we were supposed to agree mindlessly with whatever was presented. It was not anything like that. We formed opinions based upon what we perceived. Your job is to take our opinions for what they're worth, with the caveat that you can't listen through someone else's ears. I urge you to listen for yourself.

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3 minutes ago, richieb said:

Many people, me included are as enamored with the gear itself as with the music. Some maybe more, maybe me ?

Include me especially when they really look good.

 

Bill

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Don't like how people come to their own conclusions without validating your opinions?? Go on the internet and complain/troll about it.....Fortunately I had 10 minutes to kill so thanks for the entertainment.

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18 hours ago, ODS123 said:

And as I see it, a group of people being invited to Klipsch HQ, and then told what to listen for are NOT apt to offer anything but their approval that "Yes!  ..That speaker (v. IV) does sound better.


 

1 hour ago, ODS123 said:

 

I did not say or suggest that Roy TOLD people what to praise.

 
😄

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2 minutes ago, Kalifornian said:

Don't like how people come to their own conclusions without validating your opinions?? Go on the internet and complain/troll about it.....Fortunately I had 10 minutes to kill so thanks for the entertainment.


👍😄

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Well first off, if OP wanted to be objective, should read HII versus

HIV.. may be indicator of bias.

Hmnn

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1 hour ago, richieb said:

Many people, me included are as enamored with the gear itself as with the music.

 

I had to look up 'enamo(u)red' - "en amour" (= in love). For non native speakers of English, this is a non-transparent word.

 

I guess the word is appropriate here: music and gear evoke very strong feelings, and this is why discussions often turn emotional...

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1 hour ago, mikebse2a3 said:


 

 
😄

 

I am sorry you see those two statements as having the same meaning.  ..They do not.  

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13 minutes ago, ODS123 said:

 

I am sorry you see those two statements as having the same meaning.  ..They do not.  


Well guys..... I believe we are just wasting our time since he seems to want to play game’s and post crap about things he knows nothing about.... 

 

 

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2 hours ago, ODS123 said:

I did not say or suggest that Roy TOLD people what to praise.  I AM saying that if someone who is regarded as an authority (such as Ray) say's something like "listen to how much tighter the bass is" (just a possible example) that it is predictable that people will hear tighter bass.  This does not make you gullible, it makes you human.  This is why when patients participate in clinical trial they are (generally) NOT told whether they are being given the control or study medication.

This may be true. Noted authority ODS123tells himself things and because he has stature it becomes predictable that he believes himself. Doesn't make him gullible it just makes him human. One SHOULD always consider the context for sure.

 

  On a lighter note and because sometimes I find humor in things I would like to present my ongoing durability torture test of wood. For over six months now this piece of Baltic Birch has rested on the ground through dry and wet, warm and cold while holding up my trailer tongue jack. It is finally showing some minor signs of degradation outside of discoloration.

DSC_0012.JPG

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 About these Cornwalls of yours ODS, have you done any actual analytical measurements of this in your sound room you care to share or is it your refined ear we are supposed to just believe in because you say so?

18 minutes ago, mikebse2a3 said:


Well guys..... I believe we are just wasting our time since he seems to want to play game’s and post crap about things he knows nothing about.... 

 

 

That's what makes it fun and don't be so serious. Enjoy it for what it is.

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33 minutes ago, mikebse2a3 said:


Well guys..... I believe we are just wasting our time since he seems to want to play game’s and post crap about things he knows nothing about.... 

 

 

I think I figured that out a while ago…

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15 minutes ago, Dave A said:

?

37 minutes ago, mikebse2a3 said:


Well guys..... I believe we are just wasting our time since he seems to want to play game’s and post crap about things he knows nothing about.... 

 

 

That's what makes it fun and don't be so serious. Enjoy it for what it is.


I’m not as serious as you may think Dave... 👍😄

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9 minutes ago, jimjimbo said:

I think I figured that out a while ago…


Yes I could tell he was up to his typical games..  Seen it before in other threads..!!!

 

Maybe I’m just  “biased “😲 🤭 😆
 

miketn 

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41 minutes ago, Dave A said:

For over six months now this piece of Baltic Birch has rested on the ground through dry and wet, warm and cold while holding up my trailer tongue jack. It is finally showing some minor signs of degradation outside of discoloration.

 

Yeah, try that with MDF  😁

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On 5/25/2020 at 1:35 PM, ODS123 said:

 

Curious to know...  When you compared the III's to the IV's:

 

Did Roy tell you what was improved on the IV?

  • If Yes, then listeners are predisposed to hearing the differences AND considering them to be improvements - BIAS!

Were they carefully volume matched? 

  • If no, then the louder speaker is likely to be perceived as more open, dynamic, basically "better".  - BIAS!

Did you know which you were hearing at any given time?  ..Was this a blinded or sighted comparison?

  • If "sighted" there would be a strong tendency to pick Roy's version IV as sounding better.  Afterall, you were his invited guest - would be kinda hard to say "nope, not hearing a difference."  Kinda like a friend who says, "isn't my baby the most precious you've ever seen?"  Plus, having been invited to preview the speakers confers a bit of prestige and pride on those invited.  ..I see lot's of opportunity for confirmation bias here.  BIAS!

Did everyone hear everyone else's comments and observations?

  • If yes, then much opportunity for each persons opinion to be affected by the opinions expressed by the others.  Would be better if everyone just took notes on what they thought was better about them - then shared (or better, pass them to someone else to be read).   BIAS!

Sorry, but I find any listening comparison where there isn't a good-faithed effort to control biases to be rather uncompelling.

That’s your opinion. Those that know me know that I don’t play games. You believe what you want. I sleep wel at night knowing what I am trying to do. 

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40 minutes ago, Chief bonehead said:

That’s your opinion. Those that know me know that I don’t play games. You believe what you want. I sleep wel at night knowing what I am trying to do. 

 

I am NOT suggesting you or anyone else was playing games! (Sheesh).  And yes, you should sleep well at night.  You make great products and employ a great many people.  I've not disputed that.

 

Simply put:  Bias is unavoidable when listening comparisons are not precisely volume-matched and blinded.  I'm not suggesting you willfully misled people.  I am, however, pointing out that you didn't go far enough to control the influence of biases.  ..And you're in good company as ALL such invites by mfgs. to hear a new model probably are similar to yours.

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