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toe in vs toe out ?


angelaudio
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On 7/17/2020 at 6:14 AM, bribassguy said:

I don't have enough room to toe in my whole box behind my screen... can I just toe the horn (K510) on top of the box? 

 

Horn is XO at 600Hz LR 48db/Octave 

 

 

Since the lower frequencies are less directional, you might get decent reproduction with just the horns toed in. Try it. 

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  • 7 months later...

I recently bought some older Bowers & Wilkins floor standing speakers. I’m a musician who wanted to get into listening to my music in hifi. I also do studio work (producing/mixing). For me, the stereo image is VERY important to get the full picture. So I setup my speakers at various widths to find the best soundstage and sweet spot. While I was getting a good “width” in my listening position, I noticed I wasn’t getting a tight center. I figured maybe I needed to toe the speakers in to tighten it up. From slight to facing directly at my ears, my center image didn’t tighten. UNTIL I toed them out. Then the center where the vocal usually is very present FINALLY dialed in. Now I know my room isn’t perfectly treated. I saved that for my studio room. But for whatever reason toe out worked. And having been in the music business nearly my entire life, one thing I know for sure is there isn’t just one way to do things. Do what works for you. 

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I’ve done toe out for 15 years out of ignorance. Tried toe in at ALL angles and just can’t get used to it. It’s so direct and bright.Ike the sharpness up too high on the tv. I’ve always loved the idea of being able to shut my eyes and not be able to visualize the physical location of the speakers in my mind by sound. And this totally wrecks that image.  I’m gonna keep trying but man it’s difficult and I’ll likely go back to toe out. Maybe cause I’m accustomed to it but it just feels right when they’re out. 
Klipsch RF62 and Klipsch Rc62. 

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Toeing speakers outwards increases the early reflections from the side walls, which would muddy/blur the sound, since you'll be hearing a "ghost image" along with the actual soundstage image.

 

That said, it's certainly possible to get accustomed to a certain style of presentation, and grow to prefer it.  As well, there may be certain speaker types that sound better that way, but they're the exceptions.  As long as you're happy with what you're hearing, carry on!

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to me... a HIGHLY focused image lacks a bit of depth and dimension, which is why I like axis pointed BEHIND the MLP if you're not up against a back wall.

I am talking about 2º-3º maximum off axis.

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On 3/20/2021 at 4:00 AM, Islander said:

Toeing speakers outwards increases the early reflections from the side walls, which would muddy/blur the sound, since you'll be hearing a "ghost image" along with the actual soundstage image.

 

That said, it's certainly possible to get accustomed to a certain style of presentation, and grow to prefer it.  As well, there may be certain speaker types that sound better that way, but they're the exceptions.  As long as you're happy with what you're hearing, carry on!

You are assuming there is a wall within a distance to reflect off of. The simple fact is NO ONE here commenting in matter of fact terms is in the ROOM.   There fore you can not KNOW what would sound best. You are quoting what SHOULD  sound best according to parameters used by the individuals info you are using. It is entirely up to the listener in there room, to decide what sounds best. No different than the Tube or SS argument, Or Cables do they really affect sound etc...Etc... ETC...

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I have my Cornwalls in the corners towed in where the speakers cross about 1 1/2 to 2 feet in front of the listening position.  This provides a great wall of sound with a solid center image.  It also allows for better sound when you are not listening from the sweet spot.

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Step 1: Buy Klipsch Heritage 

Step 2: Put in corners of room. (This will make them toe in). (Like poster above, they cross in front of me. It’s the best I have found with them. They’re about 12 ft apart but the vocals seem to come from center of amp).

Step 3: Enjoy

 

“The Winter of Mixed Drinks” by Frightened Rabbit tonight. Cornwall IVs, MAC 7200, MoFi UltraDeck w MasterTracker cartridge, Cardas Cygnus Cables, and Zipline Brewing’s Milk Stout. Cheers 🍻 

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Edited by salbake
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  • Klipsch Employees
19 hours ago, joessportster said:

You are assuming there is a wall within a distance to reflect off of. The simple fact is NO ONE here commenting in matter of fact terms is in the ROOM.   There fore you can not KNOW what would sound best. You are quoting what SHOULD  sound best according to parameters used by the individuals info you are using. It is entirely up to the listener in there room, to decide what sounds best. No different than the Tube or SS argument, Or Cables do they really affect sound etc...Etc... ETC...

Walls or not....in

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My Heresy 3’s are 13 feet apart and toed in to fire at the opposite ends of a 10 foot long couch, which is about 13 feet away from the front wall. Have a 10 foot wide sweet spot where the center image maybe moves a foot from center no matter where you sit on the couch. Benefits everything, stereo music, movies, TV, even when using the center channel. 

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1 hour ago, Chief bonehead said:

Acoustic waves matter......

I am sure they do, But Personally I could care less if I am getting a perfect WAVE. I Listen to MUSIC.  I allow the one item on the Planet Earth that can tell me if I Like A or B dictate how I set up any part of my system.  " My Ears ".  This was the gist of the OP question as I read it "why would people toe in or Out ?" Answer because toe in or out sounds best to them. 

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