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Dave A LMAHL Tweeter Upgrade - WOW!!!!!!!

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10 hours ago, Bella said:

Dave....might be what I'm looking for. 'Upgrade' the '72 khorns to a more modern sound w/o getting rid of them. I actually would cry if I sold them. So I'm willing to do everything first.

here is what the AK-5 Network looks like ------2  sections -LF-HF   --the crossover of a 2005-2019  Khorn  --

 

Klipschorn 60th Anniverary Crossover.jpg

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14 hours ago, Bella said:

Dave....might be what I'm looking for. 'Upgrade' the '72 khorns to a more modern sound w/o getting rid of them. I actually would cry if I sold them. So I'm willing to do everything first.

As someone said, it is reversible.

If they haven't said, think the crossover network would work as is.

I would verify this with Dave or others.

Edit: was referring to Dave A tweeter

Edited by billybob
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16 minutes ago, billybob said:

As someone said, it is reversible.

If they haven't said, think the crossover network would work as is.

I would verify this with Dave or others.

Edit: was referring to Dave A tweeter

Dave has contacted me and offered to help. I think it is the way to go. Thanks everyone for guiding me.

 

B

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Just now, Bella said:

Dave has contacted me and offered to help. I think it is the way to go. Thanks everyone for guiding me.

 

B

That sounds great...let us know if it works for you...cool!

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Dave knows how these things work and how to make them sound the best as possible


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The AA’s I built you will work without having to make any changes. 

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18 hours ago, carlthess40 said:

Dave knows how these things work and how to make them sound the best as possible


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As much as this makes for great reading there are large areas where I do not have comprehensive knowledge. I kind of appreciate it but at the same time know my limits and they are there. I am a serious tinkerer but not a guru by any stretch. Thanks for the vote of confidence though.

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17 minutes ago, Dave A said:

As much as this makes for great reading there are large areas where I do not have comprehensive knowledge. I kind of appreciate it but at the same time know my limits and they are there. I am a serious tinkerer but not a guru by any stretch. Thanks for the vote of confidence though.

Wow  - this is a first time this has ever happened on the Klipsch forum!  You admitted and recognized the limits of your knowledge rather than just making up a bunch of BS.  I hope this trend catches on around here 🤣

 

PS - thanks for all your hard work on the MAHL horns.

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2 hours ago, pbphoto said:

You admitted and recognized the limits of your knowledge rather than just making up a bunch of BS.

 

More common that you think.

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I think the pictured networks are the AK-5’s from the 60th Anniversary Editions. Those are probably not available. Note the rebranded Bennics and one less resistor in the low pass. This adjustment was made because they sealed the backs up. I was told this by Mark Kaufman. 
 

This picture is also an AK-5, but on one board with Mylars. These may be available. This is the network part of their normal install in the newer sealed back designs.

 

The comment above about the tweeters being different might be true, I think they might curve a little differently. Seems I remember @Chief bonehead alluding to this. 
 

 

 

 

 

18B60F9F-FDE3-4D51-8E2D-4028EEEA67F0.jpeg

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Dave knows how to ask for help with his wonderful products that he has made. When he does coMe out with something, you can bet that he has spent a ton of time working with the items and having others test them as well. How else could his little horns sound so much better then so many of the others?
I have a set from his first run that he started to sell, and I use them for many of my speaker projects and the lens works very well with so many different compression drivers. I’m hoping that one day I’ll have the funds up to where I can buy one of his midhorn lenses because I’m sure that they’ll be just as spectacular as the high frequency horn lens that he produces
Dave dose his test with his ears, well he used to, don’t know if that’s how he is still doing it.
Me personally, I don’t rely off of what test equipment will say on the measurements, I rely more off of what my ears or someone else’s ears tells what something is doing


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I wanted to provide an update on my experiences with Dave's tweeters for my Klipschorns. A few weeks back Dave contacted me and asked if I'd like to try a set to see if I liked them. I had been in this thread asking about Klipschorn updates (mine are 1972) and got some great feedback from a few members. Dave mailed me the tweeters, which were very well packaged with all the wires and a set of instructions. 

 

It didn't take me long to get them installed - the first speaker took longer than the second one, obviously, and I did have some fit issues with both but nothing that required a skill saw or chisel. 

 

This is where I need to make clear that my networks have been updated from the originals and were provided by DeanG. In that network is a resistor for the mid-horn, which tames them about 6db (or is it 3db - I can't remember it's been a few years). Other than that my Khorns were stock. One OTHER very important thing to note is that about 2 weeks prior I had switched sources and I am now using a Naim Uniti Star. So while that unit improved the sound of my stock Khorns Dave's tweeters have taken them to another level. Maybe a couple levels.

 

My first impressions after getting them installed is that it was immediately clear the tweeters were much smoother, clearer, warmer, and very complimentary of the whole system. Meaning they sounded like that is how the Khorns should have sounded when they were originally designed. 

 

I messaged Dave and asked if he had broken the tweeters in before he sent them and he said no. I was surprised by this, since they sounded so much better the minute I put them in. I've since broken them in and of course, they have only gotten better. Very sweet, detailed, and not at all fatiguing. I am hearing things in the music that were obscured before and I can listen at higher volume levels with much more clarity. 

 

I'm very happy with them and I want to thank Dave for making such a great product and offering it to me. It was either try them or possibly sell my Khorns and look for something with a more modern design, which I didn't want to do. Now, I can keep my Khorns and be happy with the sound for another 10-15 years which will take me into my 70s and after that I won't care to upgrade, it'll be my son's problem. 

 

A couple of things for you Dave, if you're looking for opportunities to improve: first, perhaps you can thin the lens by about 1/4 inch. After installing them they are not flush and protrude out the front enough to noticeably push the fabric out. Second, they are bare metal (shiny) and because they are pushing on the fabric it's easy to see them. Perhaps a way to paint them black so they don't interfere with the aesthetics?

 

Other than those things which I can live with because of the increase in sound quality, they are fabulous. For anyone thinking about upgrading their Khorn tweeters I can definitely recommend Dave.

 

B

 

 

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+++! for excellent products from Dave.  I have a few......

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25 minutes ago, Bella said:

It didn't take me long to get them installed - the first speaker took longer than the second one, obviously, and I did have some fit issues with both but nothing that required a skill saw or chisel. 

 

25 minutes ago, Bella said:

A couple of things for you Dave, if you're looking for opportunities to improve: first, perhaps you can thin the lens by about 1/4 inch. After installing them they are not flush and protrude out the front enough to noticeably push the fabric out. Second, they are bare metal (shiny) and because they are pushing on the fabric it's easy to see them. Perhaps a way to paint them black so they don't interfere with the aesthetics?

For some reason earlier KHorns have fit up problems. I think since they were hand cut back then there was a jig used at times that was smaller than the normal K-77 cut outs by roughly a 1/16" which is enough to cause problems. I do make a reduced boss size for this and I am thinking that these are going to be what I send out for KHorns from around 76 and back from now on.

 The depth of the tweeter boss is based on 3/4" plywood which is all I have run into except for a pair of two piece LSI's that Carl had. That pie shaped mid and tweeter bin used 1/2" plywood. You have just added to the questions I will need to ask for KHorns. Easy problem to machine around if I know there is a problem.

  Regarding black. I have been asked about this before and I can advise on how to prep and paint these but not real eager to do them here.  Anodizing is another option but it means I have to double the number of offerings and hope they sell some day or do it one at a time which won't be cheap.

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7 minutes ago, Dave A said:

 

For some reason earlier KHorns have fit up problems. I think since they were hand cut back then there was a jig used at times that was smaller than the normal K-77 cut outs by roughly a 1/16" which is enough to cause problems. I do make a reduced boss size for this and I am thinking that these are going to be what I send out for KHorns from around 76 and back from now on.

 The depth of the tweeter boss is based on 3/4" plywood which is all I have run into except for a pair of two piece LSI's that Carl had. That pie shaped mid and tweeter bin used 1/2" plywood. You have just added to the questions I will need to ask for KHorns. Easy problem to machine around if I know there is a problem.

  Regarding black. I have been asked about this before and I can advise on how to prep and paint these but not real eager to do them here.  Anodizing is another option but it means I have to double the number of offerings and hope they sell some day or do it one at a time which won't be cheap.

I have seen four pair of LSI splits and all had 1/2" ply for the front of the top hat. First I heard of that was when I made a new panel of a member and I thought he was crazy, turned out he was right. Good thing he stopped me before I cut the wrong thing. I think it has to do with closing in the back side and making sure the K400 plus the driver would fit.

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3 hours ago, Bella said:

 

A couple of things for you Dave, if you're looking for opportunities to improve: first, perhaps you can thin the lens by about 1/4 inch. After installing them they are not flush and protrude out the front enough to noticeably push the fabric out. Second, they are bare metal (shiny) and because they are pushing on the fabric it's easy to see them. Perhaps a way to paint them black so they don't interfere with the aesthetics?

 

 

Perhaps a 1/4 inch gasket, could be wood (?) and longer screws would be a cost effective solution?

 

And I would like to hear how to prep and paint these, if the need should arise. 

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14 minutes ago, geoff. said:

 

 

Perhaps a 1/4 inch gasket, could be wood (?) and longer screws would be a cost effective solution?

 

And I would like to hear how to prep and paint these, if the need should arise. 

I like that shim idea. I have always had three holes at each end with the third middle one as a back up if one or some of the others were stripped out.  Would not be hard to cut shims that could be held in place by that third hole with a screw and then mount it all up.

 

Bella is the first one to tell me about the 1/2" motorboard and I am glad he did. Now I have to wonder if others ran into this and elected to say nothing.

 

  I will get a post up in the next few days on painting aluminum.

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1 hour ago, MookieStl said:

I have seen four pair of LSI splits and all had 1/2" ply for the front of the top hat. First I heard of that was when I made a new panel of a member and I thought he was crazy, turned out he was right. Good thing he stopped me before I cut the wrong thing. I think it has to do with closing in the back side and making sure the K400 plus the driver would fit.

 I thought Carl's motorboard had been replaced but they made them that way I guess. The LSI one piece has a cutout on the back board to allow  clearance for the horn and driver and  the typical 3/4" motorboard. I think that is the better way.

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19 minutes ago, Dave A said:

 I thought Carl's motorboard had been replaced but they made them that way I guess. The LSI one piece has a cutout on the back board to allow  clearance for the horn and driver and  the typical 3/4" motorboard. I think that is the better way.

that might be why they have the screw go all the way through the front of the 1/2" front panel with a washer and bolt on the back side of the horn. The 1/2" wasn't strong enough to just use wood screws from the back side. The inside clearance for the totally enclosed section is the only reason I could come up with. Just a guess, could be wrong.

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