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Dave A LMAHL Tweeter Upgrade - WOW!!!!!!!


Fido
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  • 5 months later...

I have to agree. I got my Forte IIs about a year or so ago as an upgrade to my KG4S, which I loved btw. Still have them.

 

Anyway, I not only adore the Forte IIs for the sound, but because I got them for a steal imo. Walnut finish and basically mint. Including the mint grills.

 

Already had brand new Crites crossovers in them. New titanium diaphragms. No Rez in place of the Klipsch foam. Dynamat on all horns, woofers, and passive. Slight weight added to the passive. 

 

So alot of upgrades already for a very good deal. Especially considering the prices in seeing today. Anyway, I've been looking for a way to upgrade them even further. And I found the LMAHL V2 tweeters about a week ago on eBay, researched them on here, and took a chance. They were packed and built like tanks.

 

Install was a breeze and I did all new gasket foam tape for everything while I had them open, which was needed anyway. So that's waa a plus. Anyway they've taken my Forte IIs to another level. They're clearer, more detailed, and without a doubt smoother. They have more presence, but not in a bright way. 

 

I was worried I was going to have to use the L pad. But honestly, and my hearing is good, they sound about the same level. Even though they're much more sensitive. No way I would install the L pad on these. They're literally perfect and I think that would ruin it for me. I think it's because they're so smooth that it evens out the increase in dbs. Idk.

 

I thought something was missing for a second until I realized it was the distortion that was gone. And it's that distortion that I got used too. These are like modern Forte IIs now. Oh and btw, they're machined beautifully. 

 

Look idk how the Forte Iii and Ivs sound, but with all the upgrades that were done to these, with these new tweeter horns and drivers, there's no way I'm upgrading. I don't see how they could be that far off. I really don't. No way the tweeters on the iiis and Ivs are better than these. I know that much. 

 

Honestly the only thing left would be to maybe brace the cabinets better. Eventually I'll do that. I can't recommend these enough. And to people worried they might be shrill on the Forte models because of the efficiency differences. Stop worrying now. The old ones were shrill. These are smooth as butter. That's without the L pad, that you could always use. 

 

The best thing these did was make my Fortes even more enjoyable. Because as much as I loved them my room isn't large and I'm pretty close. Not insanely, but a bit. And I was starting to wonder, even with my el34 bell carillon 6060 tube amp, if they were too much at that distance. With the new tweeters they made nearfield listening a joy because of how musical and smooth they are. It's not jarring btw, but absolutely immediately noticeable and a big upgrade.

 

Thanks again Dave for the great horns. 👍👍

Edited by Kg4Vtg
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1 hour ago, Kg4Vtg said:

I have to agree. I got my Forte IIs about a year or so ago as an upgrade to my KG4S, which I loved btw. Still have them.

 

Anyway, I not only adore the Forte IIs for the sound, but because I got them for a steal imo. Walnut finish and basically mint. Including the mint grills.

 

Already had brand new Crites crossovers in them. New titanium diaphragms. No Rez in place of the Klipsch foam. Dynamat on all horns, woofers, and passive. Slight weight added to the passive. 

 

So alot of upgrades already for a very good deal. Especially considering the prices in seeing today. Anyway, I've been looking for a way to upgrade them even further. And I found the LMAHL V2 tweeters about a week ago on eBay, researched them on here, and took a chance. They were packed and built like tanks.

 

Install was a breeze and I did all new gasket foam tape for everything while I had them open, which was needed anyway. So that's waa a plus. Anyway they've taken my Forte IIs to another level. They're clearer, more detailed, and without a doubt smoother. They have more presence, but not in a bright way. 

 

I was worried I was going to have to use the L pad. But honestly, and my hearing is good, they sound about the same level. Even though they're much more sensitive. No way I would install the L pad on these. They're literally perfect and I think that would ruin it for me. I think it's because they're so smooth that it evens out the increase in dbs. Idk.

 

I thought something was missing for a second until I realized it was the distortion that was gone. And it's that distortion that I got used too. These are like modern Forte IIs now. Oh and btw, they're machined beautifully. 

 

Look idk how the Forte Iii and Ivs sound, but with all the upgrades that were done to these, with these new tweeter horns and drivers, there's no way I'm upgrading. I don't see how they could be that far off. I really don't. No way the tweeters on the iiis and Ivs are better than these. I know that much. 

 

Honestly the only thing left would be to maybe brace the cabinets better. Eventually I'll do that. I can't recommend these enough. And to people worried they might be shrill on the Forte models because of the efficiency differences. Stop worrying now. The old ones were shrill. These are smooth as butter. That's without the L pad, that you could always use. 

 

The best thing these did was make my Fortes even more enjoyable. Because as much as I loved them my room isn't large and I'm pretty close. Not insanely, but a bit. And I was starting to wonder, even with my el34 bell carillon 6060 tube amp, if they were too much at that distance. With the new tweeters they made nearfield listening a joy because of how musical and smooth they are. It's not jarring btw, but absolutely immediately noticeable and a big upgrade.

 

Thanks again Dave for the great horns. 👍👍

I installed Dave As LMAHL tweeters in my Forte 1s and I think they sound much better than the original Klipsch tweeters even with the change to the titanium upgraded diaphragms from Crites. I put some l pads together for the lmahl tweeters but I think they sounded perfect in my listening space without the LPADS.

 

btw - I also have Forte IVs and I think they sound much better than the Forte 1s even with the 1s new crites crossovers and Dave As lmahls

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Fido said:

I installed Dave As LMAHL tweeters in my Forte 1s and I think they sound much better than the original Klipsch tweeters even with the change to the titanium upgraded diaphragms from Crites. I put some l pads together for the lmahl tweeters but I think they sounded perfect in my listening space without the LPADS.

 

btw - I also have Forte IVs and I think they sound much better than the Forte 1s even with the 1s new crites crossovers and Dave As lmahls

 

 

Nice to hear from happy customers. Since I worked on Dave's Team in the creation of these things, it really is gratifying to read. I have done all the initial and subsequent Measurements and Curves for these. I'll be finally upgrading my Fortes too!

 

First to get all of Dave's MAHLS, last to upgrade my own stuff! LOL. Not that rare in all industries!!

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On 8/31/2021 at 4:55 PM, ClaudeJ1 said:

Nice to hear from happy customers. Since I worked on Dave's Team in the creation of these things, it really is gratifying to read. I have done all the initial and subsequent Measurements and Curves for these. I'll be finally upgrading my Fortes too!

 

First to get all of Dave's MAHLS, last to upgrade my own stuff! LOL. Not that rare in all industries!!

Don’t forget that your and Dave A  are the guys behind the conversion of stock Heresys to Super Heresys that also use Dave As SMAHLs tweeters and Super Heresys are a major upgrade over stock Heresys.

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3 hours ago, Fido said:

I installed Dave As LMAHL tweeters in my Forte 1s and I think they sound much better than the original Klipsch tweeters even with the change to the titanium upgraded diaphragms from Crites. I put some l pads together for the lmahl tweeters but I think they sounded perfect in my listening space without the LPADS.

 

btw - I also have Forte IVs and I think they sound much better than the Forte 1s even with the 1s new crites crossovers and Dave As lmahls

 

 

Much better still huh? Interesting. Suprised to hear they're still that much better. What other upgrades have you done to you Fortes Is if you don't mind me asking. 

 

 

My IIs are dam good with everything done to them and the LMAHL tweeters are a god send. So so smooth and better presence. More modern. More detail. And I feel absolutely no need for an l pad. They don't even seem louder because of how natural and smooth they are. Just more presence. 

 

I'm wondering how much better the IVs could be. The Forte IIs also have the tractrix mid-range horn too remember so I'm wondering how much of a difference I'll see. I don't feel the need to upgrade, especially considering the cost of new Fortes. But wondering how much I could be missing. Are you saying the IVs tweeters are better than the LMAHL tweeters also? What tweeter do they use on the IVs? Thanks. 

Edited by Kg4Vtg
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1 hour ago, Kg4Vtg said:

Much better still huh? Interesting. Suprised to hear they're still that much better. What other upgrades have you done to you Fortes Is if you don't mind me asking. 

 

 

My IIs are dam good with everything done to them and the LMAHL tweeters are a god send. So so smooth and better presence. More modern. More detail. And I feel absolutely no need for an l pad. They don't even seem louder because of how natural and smooth they are. Just more presence. 

 

I'm wondering how much better the IVs could be. The Forte IIs also have the tractrix mid-range horn too remember so I'm wondering how much of a difference I'll see. I don't feel the need to upgrade, especially considering the cost of new Fortes. But wondering how much I could be missing. Are you saying the IVs tweeters are better than the LMAHL tweeters also? What tweeter do they use on the IVs? Thanks. 

I think that great audio sound comes from synergy. There are many great audio components and some sound better than others and some are more a miss than a bullseye. My Forte 1s have the Crites crossovers and Daves LMAHL tweeters and they sound good - I use them as my rear surround speakers now so I have listened critically to both of my pairs of Fortes in my same listening space. Yes the LMAHL Tweeters make the 1s sound better than the Crites Titanium mods or stock 1s. 

 

But... to my ears the IVs sound MUCH better to me than the 1s ever did. I would say images are much better centered and yet the soundstage seems much larger and much deeper than the 1s ever did. Bass is much improved - mostly mid bass as my sub digs way down low. The Mid range sounds magical to me. I think the crossover and mid horn and tweeter is just a better mix. I think Roy just got it right.

 

I have never heard the Forte 2s so there might be much less difference between the 2s and IVs. I could not tell you. I am very glad I bought the IVs and I keep building my system one item at a time to get the most out of the music I can. The synergy of my Primaluna integrated amp and my turntables and my Denefrips Pontus and my new Hermes reclocker - are any of these things required??? NO!!!! I surely like when the synergy gets better whenever I can afford to do what to my ears is an upgrade. If it doesn't add to the synergy I sell that component and move on.

 

Enjoy your Forte 2s awith those beautiful LMAHL machined Tweeters.

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13 minutes ago, Fido said:

I think that great audio sound comes from synergy. There are many great audio components and some sound better than others and some are more a miss than a bullseye. My Forte 1s have the Crites crossovers and Daves LMAHL tweeters and they sound good - I use them as my rear surround speakers now so I have listened critically to both of my pairs of Fortes in my same listening space. Yes the LMAHL Tweeters make the 1s sound better than the Crites Titanium mods or stock 1s. 

 

But... to my ears the IVs sound MUCH better to me than the 1s ever did. I would say images are much better centered and yet the soundstage seems much larger and much deeper than the 1s ever did. Bass is much improved - mostly mid bass as my sub digs way down low. The Mid range sounds magical to me. I think the crossover and mid horn and tweeter is just a better mix. I think Roy just got it right.

 

I have never heard the Forte 2s so there might be much less difference between the 2s and IVs. I could not tell you. I am very glad I bought the IVs and I keep building my system one item at a time to get the most out of the music I can. The synergy of my Primaluna integrated amp and my turntables and my Denefrips Pontus and my new Hermes reclocker - are any of these things required??? NO!!!! I surely like when the synergy gets better whenever I can afford to do what to my ears is an upgrade. If it doesn't add to the synergy I sell that component and move on.

 

Enjoy your Forte 2s awith those beautiful LMAHL machined Tweeters.

Thanks for the explanation. Yeah I guess I'd have to hear them. The imaging is a strong point of my Forte IIs. And the upgrades, dynamat, no rez, weight on the 15 inch passive, made a pretty nice difference too. Definitely something I would recommend, if people are willing to spend on the extras.

 

But the Soundstage is probably better on the ivs, amongst other things. Not sure. As uou said you haven't heard the iis, and I haven't heard the ivs haha. So I'm gonna have to take a listen one day. And yes synergy is everything.

 

I'm a vintage guy myself, and use a Integrated 1959 Bell carillon 6060 El34 amp, with all nos mullard Xf2s, 50s bugle boy Amperex, and smooth plate Telefunkens. And the Forte iis definitely match nicely with this amp. Not many people know about the Bell 6060. One of the best integrateds I've heard. If recapped right and I've spared no expense on getting the caps right. And I vinyl is my mainstay too. Also  vintage. JVC QL-A75 with a signet TK10ML cart 

 

Anyway I'm rambling. 

 

Thanks again, and enjoy your Forte IVs too 👍👍. Take it easy 

Edited by Kg4Vtg
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  • 1 month later...
On 6/28/2020 at 9:34 PM, ClaudeJ1 said:

Since I was the first to Measure AND Hear, all of the Dave's Lenses, my impressions were the same over 2 years ago. He keeps getting better and better. Lucky you.

Claude - I am currently using SMAHLs w/ DE-120s in my Klipschorns. Is there a big difference between those and the LMAHLs w/ DE-10s? I believe I have room for larger tweeter lenses since I am using Volti's squawker and the tweeter motorboard is cut for a Beyma tweeter. I made an adapter to fit the SMAHLs.

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1 hour ago, RickD said:

Claude - I am currently using SMAHLs w/ DE-120s in my Klipschorns. Is there a big difference between those and the LMAHLs w/ DE-10s? I believe I have room for larger tweeter lenses since I am using Volti's squawker and the tweeter motorboard is cut for a Beyma tweeter. I made an adapter to fit the SMAHLs.

The difference is subtle between them. I have had twin DE-10's per channel in my own setups 11 years ago, but I have gone through so many iterations.

 

With DaveA's MAHLs, the DE-10 is a better match for the bigger horn, and the DE-120 will work on both. With the DE-10 being fine on the sMAHL's but not as good as the DE-120, overall. The DE-10 will allow for a lower crossover point, so it's band is shifted a bit lower and it rolls pretty fast at 16 Khz. The DE-120 has a rising response above that. Just look at the curves.

 

Another factor that creeps in is the AGE and Hearing of the user. My hearing tanks at about 13 Khz. so I need all the help I can get above that. Also do you PEQ in your setup?

 

You can't go wrong with either one, but for KHORNs specifically, I would stick with the DE-120 and the sMAHL genrerally, but in your case, I don't know the rolloff point on your Volti Horns. I know Greg personally and I helped him at Axpona about 5-6 years ago. A lot depends on your specific mid DRIVER in the Horn (I have a couple of those Edgar Type horns that are bigger, so I'll be using the DE-10/LMAHL with those because with my JBL Phenolic driver, it tanks at 4 Khz. so it needs the lower Xover that the LMAHL/DE-10 can provide.

 

What I know about the Beyma, it's the closest thing to JBL 2404's which are no longer made (had those on my Khorns too). So if you got Greg's horns, I'm assuming you ended up with the 4592 ND-MID since the 4592 has it's own concentric tweeter.

 

Assuming you have a 7  Khz. Crossover point to your tweeter on the Khorns/Volti MID, I would definitely stick with the sMAHL/DE-120 combo as the best option sonically, which gives a much wider dispersion than any Co-Ax driver on a mid horn of the Bruce Edgar Type (I own 4) which Greg derived his from.

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1 hour ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

The difference is subtle between them. I have had twin DE-10's per channel in my own setups 11 years ago, but I have gone through so many iterations.

 

With DaveA's MAHLs, the DE-10 is a better match for the bigger horn, and the DE-120 will work on both. With the DE-10 being fine on the sMAHL's but not as good as the DE-120, overall. The DE-10 will allow for a lower crossover point, so it's band is shifted a bit lower and it rolls pretty fast at 16 Khz. The DE-120 has a rising response above that. Just look at the curves.

 

Another factor that creeps in is the AGE and Hearing of the user. My hearing tanks at about 13 Khz. so I need all the help I can get above that. Also do you PEQ in your setup?

 

You can't go wrong with either one, but for KHORNs specifically, I would stick with the DE-120 and the sMAHL genrerally, but in your case, I don't know the rolloff point on your Volti Horns. I know Greg personally and I helped him at Axpona about 56 years ago. A lot depends on you specific DRIVER in the Horn (I have a couple of those Edgar Type horns that are bigger, so I'll be using the DE-10/LMAHL with those because with my JBL Phenolic driver, it tanks at 4 Khz. so it needs the lower Xover that the LMAHL/DE-10 can provide.

 

What I know about the Beyma, it's the closest thing to JBL 2404's which are no longer made (had those on my Khorns too). So if you got Greg's horns, I'm assuming you ended up with the 4592 ND-MID since the 4592 has it's own concentric tweeter.

 

Assuming you have a 7  Khz. Crossover point to your tweeter on the Khorns/Volti MID, I would definitely stick with the sMAHL/DE-120 combo as the best option sonically, which gives a much wider dispersion than any Co-Ax driver on a mid horn of the Bruce Edgar Type (I own 4) which Greg derived his from.

I'm 65 and I have an equalizer APO running on windows, if the eq is accurate I can hear up to 19k and down to a little below 30hz if the equalizer is accurate. I'm happy with Greg's horns and noticed an immediate difference even when I was still using the K55Ms.

I'm using Al's Extreme slope crossovers. Overall I am extremely please with the sound of this system. The reason I was asking about the LMAHLs is I started out earlier in the year with Crite's crossover but it did not do much to improve the midrange. I kept the tweeters/DE120s and later replaced the lenses with Dave's SMAHLs. I can't really say what the difference was. I installed a SMAHL in one speaker and then moved it to the other. My focus seemed to follow the SMAHL. Not very scientific but when I installed both SMAHLs I appreciated the high end more. These horns are the only speakers I've had and I am on my fourth amplifier.  Started out with a Marantz, then Carver, Accurus and this year a McIntosh MA352. By far the best.

 

Thanks for you input

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Purchased a set of SMAHL’s for my Cornwall 1 and received last week. Machining is flawless and install was a breeze. Best of all is the sound..As stated they are detailed and oh so smoooth. Huge step up from the original k77 in my opinion. Could not be more pleased !  

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