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Cornwall, cabinet mod for base


VDS

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Hi, got Cornwall 1 (1984) last week, and noticing low base volume, which I’ve heard before in forums, and others saying they have so much base a sub is never needed.  Seems to have the capability for lots of deep base although never very tight, I hear it in certain songs, but overall, at moderate volume, base is subdued.  Bob Crites B3 crossovers installed in 2002. All original otherwise. 
placement tight in corners helps but I never get to a point of too much base from placement.

Questions...with front port design might altering sound damping inside help. Remove damping? switch to acoustic panel fiberglass on insides? Add thick rubber on inside of cabinet walls to reduce sound transmission through enclosure to possibly make speaker less placement dependent?

or electronics?  Tried my Schiit Aegir, which everybody says is great with Klipsch, sounds mushy. Tried Emotiva class AB 75 wpc, cleaner, tighter sound, but still limited base. Need different amp? 18 yr old crossover problem?

or is just what Cornwalls are and I should just buy new woofers?
 

thanks so much for reading, Ted

Ps, I actually love them, I just want to love them more

 

 

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From the title I really thought you were talking about the base partof the box rather than the low frequency bass.  Gentle grammer correction and welcome to this happy place. 

 

Some will help you.

 

In my view, it is better to use a bit of equalization rather than modifying the speaker.

 

WMcD

 

Long ago I saw a guy on the bus reading a magazine call Bass Master and actually thought it might be about speakers.  Hmm, maybe Roy reads it.  Smile.

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Cornwalls are a forward sounding speaker by design.

 

As such it is not so much that the bass is lacking as that the midrange is more prevalent.

 

The modification game is a slippery slope with extremely diminishing returns. If you have a start to finish plan and intend to keep them, which is rare, you have a solid foundation to build on. 

 

Contrary to what purists may hold dear, EQ is your friend. Whether it’s achieved by analog tone controls, in the digital domain or by tube rolling is a matter of semantics. 

 

If you will be undertaking other projects in the foreseeable future you could try the Crites woofers, they will find a good home eventually.

 

Another caveat would be to keep any “alteration” reversible should you choose to go that route. 

 

Over the years I have tried the Crites cast frame, Eminence Kappa 15C and Klipsch K-48 woofers in my Cornwalls. Honestly, every one of them sounds better to me than the stock K-33, all things being equal. Probably because most of the alternates are slightly more efficient (louder) with the Crites sounding the lowest and the K-48 sounding tightest, once again, all things being equal.

 

Something I have come to realize over the years is I prefer punch in the gut bass over LFR rumble.

 

If you are looking for deeper lows a good subwoofer may be (will be) the simple answer.

 

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 if you want the chest pounding bass , look into the Chorus speakers ------they deliver -  if you prefer Jazz  and reasonable bass   the Cornwall -------if you can add 1 sub  or 2 subs , in both cases , it might also not be a bad idea -

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1 hour ago, VDS said:

Hi, got Cornwall 1 (1984) last week, and noticing low base volume, which I’ve heard before in forums, and others saying they have so much base a sub is never needed.  Seems to have the capability for lots of deep base although never very tight, I hear it in certain songs, but overall, at moderate volume, base is subdued.  Bob Crites B3 crossovers installed in 2002. All original otherwise. 
placement tight in corners helps but I never get to a point of too much base from placement.

Questions...with front port design might altering sound damping inside help. Remove damping? switch to acoustic panel fiberglass on insides? Add thick rubber on inside of cabinet walls to reduce sound transmission through enclosure to possibly make speaker less placement dependent?

or electronics?  Tried my Schiit Aegir, which everybody says is great with Klipsch, sounds mushy. Tried Emotiva class AB 75 wpc, cleaner, tighter sound, but still limited base. Need different amp? 18 yr old crossover problem?

or is just what Cornwalls are and I should just buy new woofers?
 

thanks so much for reading, Ted

Ps, I actually love them, I just want to love them more

 

 

Don't change the box and it's insulation. You'll be taking a step backwards if you do that. Work on getting a new tweeter from DaveA and new capacitors.

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51 minutes ago, geoff. said:

Cornwalls are a forward sounding speaker by design.

 

As such it is not so much that the bass is lacking as that the midrange is more prevalent.

 

The modification game is a slippery slope with extremely diminishing returns. If you have a start to finish plan and intend to keep them, which is rare, you have a solid foundation to build on. 

 

Contrary to what purists may hold dear, EQ is your friend. Whether it’s achieved by analog tone controls, in the digital domain or by tube rolling is a matter of semantics. 

 

If you will be undertaking other projects in the foreseeable future you could try the Crites woofers, they will find a good home eventually.

 

Another caveat would be to keep any “alteration” reversible should you choose to go that route. 

 

Over the years I have tried the Crites cast frame, Eminence Kappa 15C and Klipsch K-48 woofers in my Cornwalls. Honestly, every one of them sounds better to me than the stock K-33, all things being equal. Probably because most of the alternates are slightly more efficient (louder) with the Crites sounding the lowest and the K-48 sounding tightest, once again, all things being equal.

 

Something I have come to realize over the years is I prefer punch in the gut bass over LFR rumble.

 

If you are looking for deeper lows a good subwoofer may be (will be) the simple answer.

 

Yes, midrange is very prominent, I feel like the base is overshadowed by mids, the woofers can make base, but it’s just too quiet. I am pro EQ and use it make adjustments to taste. 
Interested in your take on replacement woofers, I feel like a woofer with a higher sensitivity would be more prominent in the mix.  
I do want to go slow, but I’m fine altering the sound to suite my ears and taste, even if I move the speaker slightly away from what Klipsch intended, but I did buy Klipsch for a reason, so I want to be careful

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1 hour ago, WMcD said:

From the title I really thought you were talking about the base partof the box rather than the low frequency bass.  Gentle grammer correction and welcome to this happy place. 

 

A gentle spelling correction would have been to spell bass correctly several times in your reply.  There was nothing wrong with his grammar, possibly his mother’s mother, but not his grammar. 

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Put the tools down and put your wallet back in your pocket. 

The bass should be fine on a Cornwall ( unless you are trying to do Home Theater stuff and really need a subwoofer). You mentioned that you have them  tight in the corners. That is a good stating point (and please do not put them on stands or overly tall risers).

 

Take a recording that is known to have a sufficient and well defined bass (I use Tracy Chapman, others can chime in). In a systematic and tedious fashion (same few tracks over and over again) try moving the speakers around a bit (and also changing the toe-in, but not at the same time). Try moving the listening chair around (you are manipulating the angle and the relative distance form the walls). You will quickly discover certain placements work better than others. Use those as the references and then further refine the positioning. Again, this is a slow process and not done while having a couple of beers  (that comes later).

 

Good Luck,

-Tom

 

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14 minutes ago, PrestonTom said:

Put the tools down and put your wallet back in your pocket. 

...Again, this is a slow process and not done while having a couple of beers  (that comes later).

 

Good Luck,

-Tom

 

Ohhhhhh maybe that's my problem!    Moving speakers can be difficult while holding a beer anyway.

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58 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Don't change the box and it's insulation. You'll be taking a step backwards if you do that. Work on getting a new tweeter from DaveA and new capacitors.

I sent him your Super CW thread  --------

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25 minutes ago, muel said:

Ohhhhhh maybe that's my problem!    Moving speakers can be difficult while holding a beer anyway.

...and stories that start with, "Hold my beer" usually don't end so good!

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1 hour ago, VDS said:

...and stories that start with, "Hold my beer" usually don't end so good!

If you are a bass freak, like a longtime friend of mine, you can just re-solder the midrange from #3 to #2 on the T2A Autoformer and go to a 2 uF capacitor value, assuming you have a "B" network. This will drop the midrange by 3 db, and leave the woofer and tweeter alone. Your ROOM and your EARS will decide if this fully reverse-able mod is right for YOU.

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56 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

If you are a bass freak, like a longtime friend of mine, you can just re-solder the midrange from #3 to #2 on the T2A Autoformer and go to a 2 uF capacitor value, assuming you have a "B" network. This will drop the midrange by 3 db, and leave the woofer and tweeter alone. Your ROOM and your EARS will decide if this fully reverse-able mod is right for YOU.

Not a real base freak, and not a home theater person, but I do want some solid base, although I appreciate the laid back loose base of the Cornwalls, but a bit more  is needed.

i will have to see if I can locate the terminals you mentioned.  Any more info would be great to have.  I do have Crites B3 crossover.

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25 minutes ago, VDS said:

Not a real base freak, and not a home theater person, but I do want some solid base, although I appreciate the laid back loose base of the Cornwalls, but a bit more  is needed.

i will have to see if I can locate the terminals you mentioned.  Any more info would be great to have.  I do have Crites B3 crossover.

The Crites B2 may have a 3619 or 3636, the latter being the better of the two since it would allow for 1 db incremental reduction of the midrange levels.

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1 hour ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

If you are a bass freak, like a longtime friend of mine, you can just re-solder the midrange from #3 to #2 on the T2A Autoformer and go to a 2 uF capacitor value, assuming you have a "B" network. This will drop the midrange by 3 db, and leave the woofer and tweeter alone. Your ROOM and your EARS will decide if this fully reverse-able mod is right for YOU.

would a LPAD Have a similar effect or no

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36 minutes ago, VDS said:

Not a real base freak, and not a home theater person, but I do want some solid base, although I appreciate the laid back loose base of the Cornwalls, but a bit more  is needed.

i will have to see if I can locate the terminals you mentioned.  Any more info would be great to have.  I do have Crites B3 crossover.

you can go with Claude's new woofer  , the 15 inch 4 ohms -----Eminence Neodymium Series

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, RandyH 000 said:

you can go with Claude's new woofer  , the 15 inch 4 ohms -----Eminence Neodymium Series

 

 

 

If I did make a woofer change, I was thinking Eminance Kappa pro 15A, 101 dB, 46 htz. 8 ohms.  Is 4 ohm compatible? In kind of fuzzy on impedance 

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24 minutes ago, VDS said:

If I did make a woofer change, I was thinking Eminance Kappa pro 15A, 101 dB, 46 htz. 8 ohms.  Is 4 ohm compatible? In kind of fuzzy on impedance 

NO , the kappa 15C is not the best woofer for BASS  you have to read the link I posted here , the -Eminence Neodymium Series IS THE BEST -Claude worked on this concept for quite a while and his Super Cornwall is a Cornwall 1  with more BASS which is exactly what you want to do -

 

 

and yes , you have to buy an 4Ohms woofer , all Cornwall woofers are 4Ohms ----------8Ohms will not do -------your current woofer K33 is a  4Ohms  Woofer -------be careful with this or you will have problems --

 

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/178701-super-cornwall-10/&tab=comments#comment-2296381

 

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