VDS Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 Hi, I’ve read a lot of the threads that talk about horns, but still not enlightened, certainly horn design is a complex endeavor, but is there any consensus on installing a larger mid horn on Cornwalls. Everybody raves about the mids on LaScala and K Horns, both with large horns. I am exploring replacing stock horn with, I think, something larger. Even if I have to cut a hole in the back and have driver outside of cabinet. Like PWK said “music lives in the midrange” And I want as much as possible. thanks so much for any perspectives on this. Using A55g drivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 Specifically, What is it about the midrange on the CW that you don't like? BTW, except for the vents on the cabinet, do not poke a hole in the back. Good luck, -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 larger horns will hold their polar response to a lower frequency. a good way to determine the quality of a horn design is to look at its frequency response to see how high it goes, a wider response is a good thing. in a three way you can use a limited band device. also worth considering is the difference between small format drivers and large format drivers. large format drivers have much lower distortion figures. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 2 hours ago, VDS said: Hi, I’ve read a lot of the threads that talk about horns, but still not enlightened, certainly horn design is a complex endeavor, but is there any consensus on installing a larger mid horn on Cornwalls. Everybody raves about the mids on LaScala and K Horns, both with large horns. I am exploring replacing stock horn with, I think, something larger. Even if I have to cut a hole in the back and have driver outside of cabinet. Like PWK said “music lives in the midrange” And I want as much as possible. thanks so much for any perspectives on this. Using A55g drivers. it's called a Cornscala Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davecv41 Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 Part of this could be the listening position. The La Scala and Klipschorn mid horns are further up from the floor than the Cornwall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VDS Posted July 9, 2020 Author Share Posted July 9, 2020 11 minutes ago, RandyH 000 said: it's called a Cornscala Yeah, Ive looked at Crites horn, as i understand is a JBL 2380 clone, 2'' throat. Read mixed reviews of the JbL, some love it, others dont. but it does seem most Cornscala owners are happy... Ive looked at what Volti is building for their updated LaScala, which looks similar to 2380. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 6 minutes ago, VDS said: Yeah, Ive looked at Crites horn, as i understand is a JBL 2380 clone, 2'' throat. Read mixed reviews of the JbL, some love it, great horn -------or even better , buy a K401 from Klipsch for 100$ and place it at the top of the cab with no need to drill any holes - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VDS Posted July 9, 2020 Author Share Posted July 9, 2020 52 minutes ago, RandyH 000 said: great horn -------or even better , buy a K401 from Klipsch for 100$ and place it at the top of the cab with no need to drill any holes - Can you seriously buy them from Klipsch still? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 Bob Crites sells a Conscala D which is a two way design. That would be my go to model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 Guys, Let me point out that we have not yet heard about what the specific problem is that needs to be cured. Is it a horn issue, is it a dispersion issue, is it a crossover issue , is it a driver issue, etc. I afraid this might be a case of "lets just change something and call it an "upgrade". I won't even touch the concept of "let's measure before and after" Good luck, -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VDS Posted July 10, 2020 Author Share Posted July 10, 2020 1 hour ago, PrestonTom said: Guys, Let me point out that we have not yet heard about what the specific problem is that needs to be cured. Is it a horn issue, is it a dispersion issue, is it a crossover issue , is it a driver issue, etc. I afraid this might be a case of "lets just change something and call it an "upgrade". I won't even touch the concept of "let's measure before and after" Good luck, -Tom I’m just hoping with the long history of Cornwall, and the experience of this group, they are some accepted mods that are generally considered upgrades by most listeners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 8 hours ago, VDS said: Can you seriously buy them from Klipsch still? all you gotta do is call them , they will tell you ------and if they do ----great----- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 No, you can't get 401's from Klipsch. So, what happens if you cut up some perfectly good motorboards, change the horns -- and then hate what you hear? Start with simple things that are reversible. Buy Bob's CT-120 drop in replacement tweeter and put some nice film caps in your networks. The K-600 horn sounds just fine as long as you don't drive it to earbleed levels. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VDS Posted August 16, 2020 Author Share Posted August 16, 2020 On 7/9/2020 at 7:51 PM, PrestonTom said: Guys, Let me point out that we have not yet heard about what the specific problem is that needs to be cured. Is it a horn issue, is it a dispersion issue, is it a crossover issue , is it a driver issue, etc. I afraid this might be a case of "lets just change something and call it an "upgrade". I won't even touch the concept of "let's measure before and after" Good luck, -Tom Tom, that’s a great point and a way of thinking I was following. Currently I have Cornwall 1’s with Crites 120’s and and A55g mids. I thought the mids were harsh but when I slowed down and really listened it’s the tweeters that are giving a harsh, hissy, edgy sound(choose any adjective that is the opposite of smooth) Above 75 dB this becomes really noticeable. I’ve recently heard of Dave A’s aluminum horns with dc10(?) driver. many thought before I spent more money? Trying to learn how to make real upgrades that give me what I want, not just a “buckshot” aproach. Thanks, Ted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Let's try an experiment ... Disconnect the tweeter on one side. Then listen again. Is the problem really in the tweeter? Most folks forget that relatively energy (from music) actually comes out of the tweeter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 On 7/10/2020 at 12:17 AM, Deang said: No, you can't get 401's from Klipsch. So, what happens if you cut up some perfectly good motorboards, change the horns -- and then hate what you hear? Start with simple things that are reversible. Buy Bob's CT-120 drop in replacement tweeter and put some nice film caps in your networks. The K-600 horn sounds just fine as long as you don't drive it to earbleed levels. This is why I never bothered to get a new horn to make a Super Cornwall. The expense and trouble is not worth it. The K-600 with K 55 is good, otherwise, why would Bob Crites buy up the old Klipsch tool to make more of them under his own name? I guess they sell very well in Japan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 3 hours ago, VDS said: Tom, that’s a great point and a way of thinking I was following. Currently I have Cornwall 1’s with Crites 120’s and and A55g mids. I thought the mids were harsh but when I slowed down and really listened it’s the tweeters that are giving a harsh, hissy, edgy sound(choose any adjective that is the opposite of smooth) Above 75 dB this becomes really noticeable. I’ve recently heard of Dave A’s aluminum horns with dc10(?) driver. many thought before I spent more money? Trying to learn how to make real upgrades that give me what I want, not just a “buckshot” aproach. Thanks, Ted If you have a B network, just use a lower value on the tweeter, like a 2 uF or 1.5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VDS Posted August 17, 2020 Author Share Posted August 17, 2020 32 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said: If you have a B network, just use a lower value on the tweeter, like a 2 uF or 1.5 That would make quieter, right? I’d like to get a better sound, not just lower the volume on a bad sounding driver. I hope that doesn’t sound sarcastic. The Crites 120 is an improvement over the old k77, that’s for sure, I think I’m just getting more critical as my ears learn to listen. trying to understand the driver/horn synergy is really tough, figuring out if the distortion/harness is driver or horn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 1 minute ago, VDS said: That would make quieter, right? I’d like to get a better sound, not just lower the volume on a bad sounding driver. I hope that doesn’t sound sarcastic. The Crites 120 is an improvement over the old k77, that’s for sure, I think I’m just getting more critical as my ears learn to listen. trying to understand the driver/horn synergy is really tough, figuring out if the distortion/harness is driver or horn Just try it and make it reversible. Easy enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VDS Posted August 17, 2020 Author Share Posted August 17, 2020 10 hours ago, PrestonTom said: Let's try an experiment ... Disconnect the tweeter on one side. Then listen again. Is the problem really in the tweeter? Most folks forget that relatively energy (from music) actually comes out of the tweeter. I’ll try that today to confirm by listening to mid and tweeter independently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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