Oklahoma........yowza!

[Bosco-d-gama]

Well looks like more big changes on the way. The Supreme Court decided to honor the physical boundaries promised to the amerindians relocated to Oklahoma by treaty. Roughly 1/2 of Oklahoma will now be considered Indian reservation and this includes the entire metropolis of Tulsa. As far as I’m concerned it’s about time. If there’s one group of peoples thoroughly plowed by colonial America and the nation of America it has been the indigenous natives. After this ruling there will surely be other suits brought by other tribes whose solemn treaties got somehow vacated. Should be interesting.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53358330

[EmilC]

Is so, reparations may be in order

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/native-americans-adopted-slavery-white-settlers-181225180750948.html

 

"Members of five Native American nations, the Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, Creek, and Seminole Nations (known as the Five Tribes), owned black slaves. Then located outside the territorial boundaries of the US in a region known as Indian Territory (modern-day Oklahoma), these sovereign nations were not affected by proclamations or constitutional amendments."

[Bosco-d-gama]

34 minutes ago, EmilC said:

Is so, reparations may be in order

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/native-americans-adopted-slavery-white-settlers-181225180750948.html

 

"Members of five Native American nations, the Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, Creek, and Seminole Nations (known as the Five Tribes), owned black slaves. Then located outside the territorial boundaries of the US in a region known as Indian Territory (modern-day Oklahoma), these sovereign nations were not affected by proclamations or constitutional amendments."

This is history I did not know........  but it does not surprise me. Very informative. Thanks for posting the link.

[EmilC]

17 minutes ago, Bosco-d-gama said:

This is history I did not know........  but it does not surprise me. Very informative. Thanks for posting the link.

That Natives enslaved Blacks and each other? I'm sure you're aware that even Black Americans owned slaves.

No one has a monopoly on immorality

[Srinath]

The world is rife with this type of crap. Indians, pakisthani's, bangladeshi's, kenyans, nigerians etc etc go to the the middle east (Dubai, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Qatar, Kuwait)  to "work" after paying their way for flight/boat/bus, and the instant they arrive there, their passport gets confiscated, and they cant leave. Then they're stuck in jobs paying 1/10th doing much harder labor than originally advertised and living in tiny 6'X6' shacks with no AC in 125F weather ...

When the US abolished slavery, well, it continued for another 100+ yrs to the middle east from africa, and worse, it morphed into this.

[Bosco-d-gama]

37 minutes ago, EmilC said:

That Natives enslaved Blacks and each other? I'm sure you're aware that even Black Americans owned slaves.

No one has a monopoly on immorality

No I did not understand that amerindians held blacks in slavery. I did know that black had done so. Slavery was (sadly) more the norm for quite sometime and many cultures practiced enslaving others. 
 

What I also found interesting about your link was the commercial enterprises of the amerindians and the relationship of enslaving native Americans and the nexus to the importation and enslavement of Africans. I have read a lot of historic materials and listened to many lectures on these subjects and had not heard about these perspectives.

[OO1]

1 hour ago, EmilC said:

Is so, reparations may be in order

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/native-americans-adopted-slavery-white-settlers-181225180750948.html

 

"Members of five Native American nations, the Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, Creek, and Seminole Nations (known as the Five Tribes), owned black slaves.

what a shame -------

 

[OO1]

54 minutes ago, EmilC said:

That Natives enslaved Blacks and each other?  Black Americans owned slaves

 in the last revolts , the destruction of businesses owned by African Amercans  that were looted and burned to the ground  was just another example of what you are saying here , simply to show that nothing has changed in over 200 years among their own communities , dont blame others , blame yourself first , if you want real changes -and most Americans of all races speak against injustice  for the most part -

[OO1]

36 minutes ago, Srinath said:

The world is rife with this type of crap. Indians, pakisthani's, bangladeshi's, kenyans, nigerians etc etc go to the the middle east (Dubai, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Qatar, Kuwait)  to "work" after paying their way for flight/boat/bus, and the instant they arrive there, their passport gets confiscated, and they cant leave. Then they're stuck in jobs paying 1/10th doing much harder labor than originally advertised and living in tiny 6'X6' shacks with no AC in 125F weather ...

When the US abolished slavery, well, it continued for another 100+ yrs to the middle east from africa, and worse, it morphed into this.

you are so right -

[Jeff Matthews]

I'm having a hard time seeing if this ruling is really a big deal or not.  The opinion is long (TL;DR).  I read the syllabus.  As far as I can tell, the S Ct seems to acknowledge that Congress has authority to eat away at the sovereignty of the natives of the Creek Reservation.  The state can't do that.  In this case, the state convicted a man of raping a 4 year old girl.  He appealed his conviction, claiming the incident occurred on Creek Reservation lands and that the state did not have jurisdiction.  The S Ct agreed and reversed his conviction.  

 

Beyond that, I'm not sure if there are much greater ramifications.  Can the Creek Natives abolish all state/local taxes and levy their own?  Tulsa's a big place.  That could mean lots of money and power to the natives.

[EmilC]

https://news.osu.edu/when-europeans-were-slaves--research-suggests-white-slavery-was-much-more-common-than-previously-believed/

 

 

A new study suggests that a million or more European Christians were enslaved by Muslims in North Africa between 1530 and 1780 – a far greater number than had ever been estimated before.

In a new book, Robert Davis, professor of history at Ohio State University, developed a unique methodology to calculate the number of white Christians who were enslaved along Africa’s Barbary Coast, arriving at much higher slave population estimates than any previous studies had found.

Most other accounts of slavery along the Barbary coast didn’t try to estimate the number of slaves, or only looked at the number of slaves in particular cities, Davis said. Most previously estimated slave counts have thus tended to be in the thousands, or at most in the tens of thousands. Davis, by contrast, has calculated that between 1 million and 1.25 million European Christians were captured and forced to work in North Africa from the 16th to 18th centuries.

 

So European Christian  Whites were enslaved by people of color?  Reparations is sounding pretty good right about now :^)

 

[JJkizak]

What ever happened to "After I take it it's mine syndrome"

JJK

[Bosco-d-gama]

I drilled into the subject a little deeper. It is interesting. Reportedly blacks kept as chattel by the 5 tribes were treated quite well in relative terms. It was stated that white men acting as agents for the tribes made efforts to educate them on ‘how’ to treat black slaves because they observed that the tribes treated them too nicely. I could not find where any blacks tried to escape their situations but that may have been more geographic than by desire since Oklahoma was frontier at the time. Many blacks assimilated with their tribes and we’re welcomed to do so. In other words it was not the same punishing ‘slavery’ as blacks endured under their white masters. It was not nice, it was forced and their choices were sparse. Worst of all the descendants of these blacks were denied tribal membership in subsequent years. They sued for tribal membership and won. Now they’re entitled to whatever their once native masters get.

[oldtimer]

Slavery exists to this day.  Pointing fingers at others doesn't erase anything else.  Using it as some sort of justification, moral or otherwise, is disgusting, yet typical of certain viewpoint's propaganda efforts.

[Bosco-d-gama]

1 hour ago, oldtimer said:

Slavery exists to this day.  Pointing fingers at others doesn't erase anything else.  Using it as some sort of justification, moral or otherwise, is disgusting, yet typical of certain viewpoint's propaganda efforts.

Which is why we must not erase or ignore it’s history and that it’s history is historically accurate.

[Seadog]

In his book "The Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter" (1923), W. D. M. "Karamojo" Bell mentions freed American slaves in Liberia who became slave owners there.  How ironic.

[CECAA850]

6 minutes ago, Seadog said:

In his book "The Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter" (1923), W. D. M. "Karamojo" Bell mentions freed American slaves in Liberia who became slave owners there.  How ironic.

What's so ironic about that?  I used to own Klipsch speakers, now they own me.

[Dave1290]

So maybe Liz Warren is part indian?  Asking for a friend. 

[oldtimer]

Actually, she is.  And is more than I, having zero.  And more than most of us.  Honest, God fearing, white people...which I am except for the fear part.  

[oldtimer]

Archived, you might have to get at it a different way...

 

Just about everything you’ve read on the Warren DNA test is wrong - The Washington Post

 

The post admits they also got it wrong.

 

The facts are the facts.  The rest of the story about whether it was enough to claim ethnicity on applications is another issue.  Some people still believe the civil war was about states rights above all else.  Maybe, you know, maybe....people believe in their perceived handed down heritage, it's all the same.  So I say say cast stones at all of them, and quit being hypocrites.