Forte 11 woofer replacements and amp advice

[englishandy]

I have been kindly given a pair of forte 11 speakers from a friend who has moved overseas.

Questions

1.Where do i find replacements for the K25 Woofers and do i have to replace the K15 at the same time?

2.What is the best amp to use with these beauties - i lean towards rock and loud enough to annoy my southern bible belt neighbours - yes I know their are loud christian rock groups hiding out there somewhere !!

Go easy on me im a newbie and yes i've just bought Bose speakers for the house before - i knew no better!! so i'm learning!!!

Thankyou

Andy

Edited July 24, 2020 by englishandy
speling

[Alexander]

 

Welcome and congrats on getting a pair of forte IIs

 

 

on question # 1

here is a site for a replacement woofer(s) if eBay does not pan out https://critesspeakers.com/

and no you will not need to change out the k15 passive radiator

 

#2 Most damage to speakers come from over driving an under powered amp than having too much power to begin with.

 

I would suggest getting something with a minimum of ~70 honest watts*. That might mean 100+ watts if they rate there numbers @6 ohms.

 

* watts per channel @8 ohms with two channels driven if an AVR receiver. Any of the brands like Denon, Marantz, Onyko or Yamaha made in Japan are good examples.

 

[Dave A]

I would not replace anything until I had recapped those old out of spec crossovers. Why are you wanting to just dive in and start replacing things?  Work first on the thing that effects your sound in a bad way and is cheap to fix which is of course recapping.

[Alexander]

 

Good point, was going on the assumption there was something wrong/missing with the k25 woofer(s). You can re cap your xovers for as little as about $20-25 using. Solen or Dayton caps. Cheap but much better than the originals.

 

 

[001]

Need more info on the condition of the speakers... are the woofers bad or damaged?  if not they dont need to be replaced. 

 

I agree with new caps for the x-overs, but no need to do it until you listen to the speakers first, if they sound good as is theres no need to rush into changing them. listen to them for awhile & get familiar with the sound, then worry about "upgrades" if you think they are needed.  

 

 

[Dave A]

I disagree. Every crossover I have measured caps on with speakers that old are bad. At the very least high ESR and so they are not in spec as designed at that point and if you want to hear them as they were designed to be heard you have to recap.

 

  While mentioning this there are also other things to be done which cost nothing. Make sure all spade end connectors are tight. Make sure all screws are snug and not loose on all drivers and the passive. While you are in the box doing this make sure wires are hooked up to the correct terminal. Have a look at the input connection too and if you are using banana plugs that they fit in tight and are not sloppy loose.

[JohnA]

What's wrong with the woofers?

 

Fortes were rated for 100 watts max.  I'd expect the IIs are the same.  If you are going for 2-channel, Look at very good quality Receivers and Integrated Amps from Yamaha, Marantz, Cambridge, Denon, Sony ES, ....  Since you are looking to damage your hearing, go for something around 100 watts/channel, 20 to 20k Hz, all channels driven at x% distortion per the old FTC rating procedure. 

 

FWIW, the only time I ever damaged ANY speakers was with too much power over too long a time period.  I melted the voice coils in 4 subwoofer drivers, at one time. 

[001]

On 7/25/2020 at 11:11 AM, Dave A said:

I disagree. Every crossover I have measured caps on with speakers that old are bad. At the very least high ESR and so they are not in spec as designed at that point and if you want to hear them as they were designed to be heard you have to recap.

 

  While mentioning this there are also other things to be done which cost nothing. Make sure all spade end connectors are tight. Make sure all screws are snug and not loose on all drivers and the passive. While you are in the box doing this make sure wires are hooked up to the correct terminal. Have a look at the input connection too and if you are using banana plugs that they fit in tight and are not sloppy loose.

 

thats fine if you disagree... but even with high ESR that doesnt mean the caps are out of spec, the factory caps have at least a 10% tolerance of their microfarad value, if not more.  was there a spec for ESR on the cheap original caps?  based on that logic, one new cap with a higher ESR than another more expensive brand is "bad"?    

 

just saying that not all speakers of this era need to be recapped, i have owned numerous pairs of forte/chorus as well as multiple KG & epic series speakers, & all but 2 of them sounded fine & majority of people would never hear a problem... the 2 that were bad sounded like a towel was covering the mids & tweets the caps were indeed bad.  i even did a recap on a pair of KG 5.5's that sounded great & i could not hear the difference neither could my friend that owned them.  i'd be willing to bet that most people cant hear slightly higher ESR from one cap to another if they are still within uf spec.  in fact id go so far as to say most cant hear a difference from a dayton cap to a sonicap in a blind A/B test. 

 

the suggestion to listen to them for awhile to establish a baseline makes sense, to most people these speakers will sound perfectly fine in original form. i agree its a good idea to recap when needed but as with any mod/upgrade, not everyone needs or wants to do it nor will they hear the same as the next guy, so to each their own.  just giving some realistic advice to the new guy asking.    

[Dave A]

1 hour ago, EpicKlipschFan said:

 

thats fine if you disagree... but even with high ESR that doesnt mean the caps are out of spec, the factory caps have at least a 10% tolerance of their microfarad value, if not more.  was there a spec for ESR on the cheap original caps?  based on that logic, one new cap with a higher ESR than another more expensive brand is "bad"?    

 

just saying that not all speakers of this era need to be recapped, i have owned numerous pairs of forte/chorus as well as multiple KG & epic series speakers, & all but 2 of them sounded fine & majority of people would never hear a problem... the 2 that were bad sounded like a towel was covering the mids & tweets the caps were indeed bad.  i even did a recap on a pair of KG 5.5's that sounded great & i could not hear the difference neither could my friend that owned them.  i'd be willing to bet that most people cant hear slightly higher ESR from one cap to another if they are still within uf spec.  in fact id go so far as to say most cant hear a difference from a dayton cap to a sonicap in a blind A/B test. 

 

the suggestion to listen to them for awhile to establish a baseline makes sense, to most people these speakers will sound perfectly fine in original form. i agree its a good idea to recap when needed but as with any mod/upgrade, not everyone needs or wants to do it nor will they hear the same as the next guy, so to each their own.  just giving some realistic advice to the new guy asking.    

  I have looked for ESR specs on the original OEM capacitors and have never found them.  Everything I read though states ESR is a measure of resistance that does increase over time and will effect the sound. I agree entirely on the Sonicap VS Dayton and if I use the 1% Dayton measure hardly any difference between the two and Dayton's are a lot cheaper.

 

  What I do is based on numerous speakers bought and sold that I have had a chance to listen to before and after. I always recap now.

 

  OP is expressing a desire to start changing drivers and I am suggesting something cheaper to do and that has proven beneficial with the speakers I have worked on. I am assuming he has listened to them and something is missing which is why he posted.

 

  A thought occurs to me @englishandy that you might be unaware that placement next to a wall or corner makes these sound better too.

[OO1]

On 7/24/2020 at 12:03 AM, englishandy said:

1.Where do i find replacements for the K25 Woofers and do i have to replace the K15 at the same time?

Are  the k-25 woofers damaged , if yes , check with klipsch parts , the new Forte 3  and the Heresy 3 -4 use the k28  4ohms woofer ---------that should also work well in the Forte 2 -

 

There are also recone kits for the K25 -------https://reconingspeakers.com/product/klipsch-k-25k-12-aftermarket-recone-kit-for-forte-ii/

[001]

1 hour ago, Dave A said:

  I have looked for ESR specs on the original OEM capacitors and have never found them.  Everything I read though states ESR is a measure of resistance that does increase over time and will effect the sound. I agree entirely on the Sonicap VS Dayton and if I use the 1% Dayton measure hardly any difference between the two and Dayton's are a lot cheaper.

 

  What I do is based on numerous speakers bought and sold that I have had a chance to listen to before and after. I always recap now.

 

  OP is expressing a desire to start changing drivers and I am suggesting something cheaper to do and that has proven beneficial with the speakers I have worked on. I am assuming he has listened to them and something is missing which is why he posted.

 

  A thought occurs to me @englishandy that you might be unaware that placement next to a wall or corner makes these sound better too.

 

i understand high ESR is bad, but in reality the average person has no way to know whats what & the numbers vary from brands & types of caps. it also matters how a speaker was treated over its life... i had a pair of forte from 87 i think that sounded incredible on original caps, they were one owner i got from an 80 year old man that listened to only classical type music.  i bought a set of 1992 or 93 chorus2 used off ebay with unknown history & they sounded horrible, like a towel was covering them, i though the mid or tweet were damaged.  i replaced the caps first & they sound like new, the older speaker sounded great, newer one sounded like crap.  

 

ive changed quite a few caps in klipsch speakers & cheaper ones & usually hear a noticeable improvement.  changing the caps is a good idea but more for the quality upgrade of a poly cap (or better) vs the cheaper stock caps. 

 

OP hasnt really said why he needs or wants new drivers, waiting for a reply.  they were just given to him & maybe they are damaged & he just wants to get them working again?  i assume unless they are damaged or missing, the original woofers would sound fine.  i wasnt saying dont change the caps, just to listen to them for awhile first. 

 

yes positioning makes a big difference in bass sound, especially with a rear passive.  some say a couple feet off each wall, mine sound great at about 12" off rear & 18"-24"of side wall.  

 

   

 

[Alexander]

 

I am also a big proponent of listening to new to new owner speakers for at least a few weeks to familiarize them selves with there sound. But isn't even a “lowly” Dayton cap an upgrade from a 20-30+ year old OEM polyester cap?

 

 

[Dave A]

I use a B&K 885 meter to check for ESR so I do have a way of knowing exactly what the values are of capacitors that come my way. Tolerances have tightened up on everything being made over the last 35 or so years since the speakers we are talking about were made. This is what I have never had an answer on though is were original crossover designs based on known sloppy current choices of caps and their specs, or was the design based on precise calculations and a mathematical prediction of correct values and then parts hunting began that would economically be close enough. If math was used I would think the closer you can get to the speced values the better you would fulfill design intent.