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Shakeydeal

Cornwall IV and break in

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Nah, everything I buy needs a "break in" period from trucks to sewing machines to gasoline outboard motors, to speakers. Just like people, relationships between parts of a mechanism take time to get to know one another. My wife and I had to have a little break in period in our relationship. That was 20 years ago. Who said it wouldn't last? :)

 

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6 minutes ago, JL Sargent said:

Nah, everything I buy needs a "break in" period from trucks to sewing machines to gasoline outboard motors, to speakers.  :)

 

and dont do a correct break-in phase , you end up with premature failures -

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30 minutes ago, JL Sargent said:

Nah, everything I buy needs a "break in" period from trucks to sewing machines to gasoline outboard motors, to speakers. Just like people, relationships between parts of a mechanism take time to get to know one another. My wife and I had to have a little break in period in our relationship. That was 20 years ago. Who said it wouldn't last? :)

 

 

You make a solid point :)   ..But as it pertains to audio, I think it's mostly our ears that's doing the breaking in.  And congrats on 20 years!  ..I'm closing in on 30 myself.

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On 7/26/2020 at 12:16 AM, Alexander said:

You could have the speakers face one other very closely. Then swap the speaker wire polarity of one of the speakers. You should then be able to have the volume higher than you could normally tolerate.

 

Already mentioned above, and it is a great idea.

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IMHO, If 10, 20, or even 100 hours of breakin would take a speaker from sounding "bright and tight" to "smooth and improved", Klipsch would surely find a way to incorporate driver break-in into their manufacturing process. ..Especially for a $6k pair of speakers.  

 

No, they wouldn't. There isn't a lot of margin on a 6K pair of speakers. And time is money. If they took the time to play each and every pair of speakers for 100 hours before packaging and shipping, how much do you think that would 

 

a) subtract from the profit margin, or

b) add to the retail price

 

Now I don't believe a speaker that is unlistenable out of the box is going to turn into some fantastic gem in a month or two. But I do believe that speaker break in is real and I have heard it for myself on many occasions. I don't need Bob Crites or even Paul Klipsch himself to validate my opinion or negate it. Doesn't matter to me.

 

Shakey

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24 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said:

 

No, they wouldn't. There isn't a lot of margin on a 6K pair of speakers. And time is money. If they took the time to play each and every pair of speakers for 100 hours before packaging and shipping, how much do you think that would 

 

a) subtract from the profit margin, or

b) add to the retail price

 

Now I don't believe a speaker that is unlistenable out of the box is going to turn into some fantastic gem in a month or two. But I do believe that speaker break in is real and I have heard it for myself on many occasions. I don't need Bob Crites or even Paul Klipsch himself to validate my opinion or negate it. Doesn't matter to me.

 

Shakey

 

There doesn't have to be a lot of margin.  ..What does it take to build and finish a cornwall speaker?  ..10-20 hours?  And those hours are likely spread over a few days, right??   You mean they couldn't devise a way to exercise the drivers during that period if they wanted to??  ..Of course they could.  And I don't believe they employ some sort of just-in-time-delivery factory process where the speaker drivers arrive within moments of the speaker cabinets being completed.  

 

...The notion of speaker break-in persists for a reason that is wholly convenient to manufacturers and retailers.  It helps reduce returns from unhappy customers.  ..just MHO.

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I dunno. How's about a frequency response test at 0 hours and then after 100 hours at full blow. But it would have to be a controlled test. You know using instruments and equipment and stuff. And in an anechoic chamber. And stuff.

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Think of it as a fine wine which takes time...

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2 minutes ago, ODS123 said:

 

There doesn't have to be a lot of margin.  ..What does it take to build and finish a cornwall speaker?  ..10-20 hours?  And may spred out over a few days??   You mean they couldn't devise a way to exercise the drivers during that period if they wanted to??  ..Of course they could.  

 

Whatever they could devise would add to the bottom line of the speaker. We can all have a warm fuzzy feeling about Klipsch, the American company that builds in the USA, and whatever else. But they are in the business to make money. I bet even if Roy told them this would add to the finished product he would be shot down. Even if it adds twenty bucks to the build of the speaker, that cuts into the profit. 

 

Business is business........

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1 hour ago, ODS123 said:

.I'm closing in on 30 myself.

WOW

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10 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said:

 

Whatever they could devise would add to the bottom line of the speaker. We can all have a warm fuzzy feeling about Klipsch, the American company that builds in the USA, and whatever else. But they are in the business to make money. I bet even if Roy told them this would add to the finished product he would be shot down. Even if it adds twenty bucks to the build of the speaker, that cuts into the profit. 

 

Business is business........

 

You're only looking at the cost.  ..You're not considering that if breaking in the drivers results in better sounding speakers for first 100 hours they would have happier customers, fewer returns to dealers, etc.. etc...

 

Allowing a $6k speaker to leave the factory not yet sounding it's best is unthinkable.  ..Oh, and what about the measurements and quality control??  ..How does that factor in? 

 

Sorry  but you have your notions about break-in, I have mine.  ..Let the readers of these posts decide for themselves which perspective is more plausible.

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18 minutes ago, ODS123 said:

 

You're only looking at the cost.  ..You're not considering that if breaking in the drivers results in better sounding speakers for first 100 hours they would have happier customers, fewer returns to dealers, etc.. etc...

 

Allowing a $6k speaker to leave the factory not yet sounding it's best is unthinkable.  ..Oh, and what about the measurements and quality control??  ..How does that factor in? 

 

Sorry  but you have your notions about break-in, I have mine.  ..Let the readers of these posts decide for themselves which perspective is more plausible.

 

 

According to most reports, if happier customers were all they were concerned about, they would have skipped the CW III completely and gone straight to the IV. But obviously they couldn't make the IV at the retail price of the III. Every time you improve something, end user cost goes up, generally speaking. And as far as I know, returning a Heritage speaker to the dealer because you don't like it isn't an option. At least that's what I've been lead to believe.

 

I agree, let the reader decide for him/herself. If you can't hear a difference after some time, then no big shakes to me. I can't convince those people that all amps aren't the same and cables and power cords make an audible difference. To each his/her own.

 

 

Shakey

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I didn't believe in break in past a few minutes. 

 

But with new Cornwall  lll's I just played them as usual, then about 3-4 weeks later my wife asked me what did you do, that sounds better? I noticed it also but didn't say anything to her before she said that. I did nothing, they were not moved or anything was changed but we both heard it. There was no question something sounded different you could hear just casually listening in the general area.

 

4 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said:

According to most reports, if happier customers were all they were concerned about, they would have skipped the CW III completely and gone straight to the IV. But obviously they couldn't make the IV at the retail price of the III. Every time you improve something, end user cost goes up, generally speaking.

The big problem is the time between the 3 and the 4, hold out for the 5 version, might be 20 years for all we know.

 

 

For anyone who has not seen the 3's being made which shouldn't be that much different then the 4's. This mine from 2006, I won them at a Pilgrimage in 06, GREAT price. :lol:

 

http://www.cyclonecj.com/dtel/Dtelcorns-small/

 

 

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I was thinking about what I posted, I kind of thought break in could have been your ears adjusting to the new sound. But if that was the case why did we both hear a change a few weeks in and kind of all of a sudden more or less, over a couple days it changed ?  We usually do not critical listen, sit in one spot where it's best, it's on and were doing other things in the area.

 

I say a few weeks it could have been 2, don't remember exactly, it was in 2006. They sounded good right out of the box but positively changed not long after, more relaxed and overall better.

 

I don't know why or how, I do know we never adjusted to the new sound after that time and all of a sudden we both liked it more.  

 

I hope they work out for you, there the best Cornwall made yet easily.

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2 hours ago, RandyH000 said:
3 hours ago, JL Sargent said:

Nah, everything I buy needs a "break in" period from trucks to sewing machines to gasoline outboard motors, to speakers.  :)

 

and dont do a correct break-in phase , you end up with premature failures -

I remember MANY years ago I bought a new sports car, I asked my dad what should I do they say run it lightly for the first couple hundred hours and I had only had about 50 hours on it at that point ? He said no run it how you want, and change the oil at about 200 hundred hours, if there is a problem find out now, that was just what I wanted to hear as a teen. 

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I won't argue about if the speakers will sound noticeably different after some use or not.  But if you really want to exercise them in I would consider using Pink Noise instead of music.  This way you hit the entire spectrum evenly and continuously.

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18 hours ago, Shakeydeal said:

 

 

According to most reports, if happier customers were all they were concerned about, they would have skipped the CW III completely and gone straight to the IV. But obviously they couldn't make the IV at the retail price of the III. Every time you improve something, end user cost goes up, generally speaking. And as far as I know, returning a Heritage speaker to the dealer because you don't like it isn't an option. At least that's what I've been lead to believe.

 

I agree, let the reader decide for him/herself. If you can't hear a difference after some time, then no big shakes to me. I can't convince those people that all amps aren't the same and cables and power cords make an audible difference. To each his/her own.

 

 

Shakey

 

Shakey,

IMO, this probably has more to do with what components you are mating with these speakers. Many describe tubes as being warm. Quite frankly, I find solid state often to be warm and more rolled off. Mirko who posts here and I have been comparing a lot of different preamps, amps and components and I'm shocked at how the sound signatures and sound stages can differ greatly compared to these topics of break-in which I think are subtle at best. It may have more to do with the components you are using with these particular speakers.   

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Understood. Horns more than any speaker I have experienced are very sensitive to front end and amplification components. That's why I always tell newbies not to cheap out when it comes to what you pair with horn speakers. Mass market receivers, cheap digital amps, processors used as preamps, etc... have no place with a speaker that can potentially take your head off. Careful matching is in order.

 

I wouldn't say my Music Reference RM9 II/Don Sachs preamp are world class, but they are very capable. Especially the RM9. Just try to find one of these if you can. When you do, expect to pay a premium. My point is that I don't think my associated equipment is a bottleneck for CW IVs.

 

Shakey

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Absolutely NO DOUBT the speakers need Break in. Why anyone can not understand the concept is beyond me. The driver if boiled down to basics is a mechanical suspension that moves to and fro. it is brought back to static by the spider and the surround the stiffer those are the harder it is for the amp to move them. With time and exercise they will loosen up IE... Broken in. Especially true with a direct radiating driver

No real difference than a cars suspension.  Note also that LONG terms of no use can start the process again. It simply takes time to loosen things up.  This has nothing to do with a company having time to perform break-in  I am sure they could put that in place but if the speaker sets in its box for 6 months a year before purchase. It will need break in all over again (perhaps not as long, but it will require time to loosen back up).

 

How 1 breaks in a speaker is up in the air. I have had 4 pairs of K-Horns and of the 4 pair 1 had astounding bass it was shocking at how different it sounded. I discovered the owner before me always played them loud and always with SS amps certainly moving the cone more than low powered flea watt amps.  All were Original Crossovers / no upgrades same era

I experienced the same thing with a couple pairs of lascala

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