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ANDREW1211

Driver for k402

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Good day

Sorry if i missed with forum

I have k402 with radian 950 driver

950 is good but just a bit too bright for my taste and it can`t be used in two-way even with Be diaphragms, so i`m going to replace it.

As i know, the best option for k402 is tad, but it`s too expensive for me, so here is my options:

1)B&C DCX50 it will be not true two-way, but still better solution than separate 2 drivers with horns

2)Faital HF20AT

maybe you can recommend something different (except bms drivers, i don`t like how they sound)

thanks in advance

with best regards, Andrew

p.s. passive crossover will be used

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Andrew, To be honest if you are determined to use a passive crossover then I would not bother spending much money on a fancy driver.

IOW, your limiting factory might well be the crossover and not the driver. Does your crossover have any sort of autoformer or a pair of resistors (acting as a voltage divider)? 

 

It would be helpful if you spelled out how your system is configured. 2-way or 3-way and with what cross over points, What is the bass bin? What is the crossover? Was the crossover designed to provide any CD (constant dispersion) compensation?

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I may have to agree with Tom.  There was however a gentleman using the Faital PRO HF200 with a passive with great results, but that passive was built for that driver.  Just a thought. 

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It's the passive crossover that's not doing a proper EQ that's the problem, not the driver or horn. There is over 10 dB of end-to-end EQ that's required for the HF200/HF20AT series. 

 

Here is an EQ curve for the closely related HF20AT.  The resulting flatness of the SPL response is something like ±1.5 dB after the following PEQs are dialed in (with measurements taken at 1m):

 

861165925_FatialPROHF20ATEQXConsole.thumb.JPG.2cccc71a05e1432b3905bdd01375c43d.JPG

 

 

Here is the EQ curve that corresponds to your Radian 950PB driver on a K-402 horn:

 

1583167202_Radian950BeonK-402hornEQ.JPG.82b3fe2c4823c52c1675eb8b1a03ce9c.JPG

 

Chris

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Thanks for your reply

I don`t like how digital systems sound and i will never use D-class amplifier or DSP

Prefer fully analogue system - reel/lp - low power tube amp, passive crossover and high sensitivity speakers

So, in your opinion, any of these drivers will sound bad in this application? 

there are many system using tad without EQ, volti audio uses passive crossovers with bms 4592

I hoped i could build a better version of klipsch forte or a cheaper version of tad 2401

This is what i have now: pair of faital 15pr400, pair of radian 950 and 2 faitals hf10ak

  • Confused 1

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4 hours ago, ANDREW1211 said:

I don`t like how digital systems sound and i will never use D-class amplifier or DSP

 

K-402 horns are controlled directivity horns, i.e., they require EQ on the compression drivers (two examples of which I posted above).  Any notions that you're going to find a compression driver that doesn't require EQ is, to me, a waste of time. You're going to need to build notch filters for your passive crossovers to EQ the compression driver to have flatter SPL response.  Get yourself a good calibrated microphone, Room EQ Wizard, XSim or VitiuxCAD (the free version) to design and build the passive notch filters, and DATS (impedance measuring hardware/software) to measure the electrical properties of your compression drivers...and a lot of time to learn how to use it.

 

Anti-digital bias has a very high price nowadays.  Good luck with your new project.

 

Chris

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I have TAD 4002 drivers on all my 402s (4 of them).  You still need plenty of EQ for those CD horn/driver combos.  When I was using passive networks I used an Ashly 31 band analog EQ on the tape monitor loop of my preamp.  That was a very satisfying solution and was able to successfully flatten the response.  I eventually did introduce a digital crossover but that is another subject.

 

If you are using 402 horns you need EQ...........or some other horns.

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Have you even done a blind test between a passive k402 system and k402 system utilizing DSP?

 

While i understand your feelings having been there myself, you're leaving a lot on the table.

 

As far as I know, the only passive I'm aware of that can be purchased for a Faital driver ( HF200) is from Crites...

 

Good luck with your quest!

 

( Just a FYI, those radian drivers you're using are quite good, i know many k402 owners who use them w/wo BE and are pleased with them.)

 

Erik

 

 

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On 7/30/2020 at 9:14 AM, mark1101 said:

I have TAD 4002 drivers on all my 402s (4 of them).  You still need plenty of EQ for those CD horn/driver combos.  When I was using passive networks I used an Ashly 31 band analog EQ on the tape monitor loop of my preamp.  That was a very satisfying solution and was able to successfully flatten the response.  I eventually did introduce a digital crossover but that is another subject.

 

If you are using 402 horns you need EQ...........or some other horns.

 

Do you really need all 4 of those TAD drivers!?!?   lol

I'm still on a quest for a nice clean pair for a reasonable price!

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1 minute ago, MisterVego said:

 

Do you really need all 4 of those TAD drivers!?!?   lol

I'm still on a quest for a nice clean pair for a reasonable price!

Buena Suerte mi amigo.

I only have two and they will be inherited by someone, know what I mean?:)

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2 hours ago, babadono said:

I only have two and they will be inherited by someone, know what I mean?:)


Let me be the first to say “I’m pretty sure we must be kin folk... “  

 

miketn 😉

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3 hours ago, MisterVego said:

( Just a FYI, those radian drivers you're using are quite good, i know many k402 owners who use them w/wo BE and are pleased with them.)


Eric what time I spent listening to the Radian 950BePB at a friends home with Jub/K402 left me very impressed...!!!

 

miketn

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20 minutes ago, mikebse2a3 said:


Eric what time I spent listening to the Radian 950BePB at a friends home with Jub/K402 left me very impressed...!!!

 

miketn

 

I value your opinion, this just confirms what i've heard from others even more!

 

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On 7/29/2020 at 9:53 AM, PrestonTom said:

Andrew, To be honest if you are determined to use a passive crossover then I would not bother spending much money on a fancy driver.

IOW, your limiting factory might well be the crossover and not the driver. Does your crossover have any sort of autoformer or a pair of resistors (acting as a voltage divider)? 

 

It would be helpful if you spelled out how your system is configured. 2-way or 3-way and with what cross over points, What is the bass bin? What is the crossover? Was the crossover designed to provide any CD (constant dispersion) compensation?

I Read this advice and it made me wonder. I have Cornwall 1’s with some harsh mid sounds. Currently have Crites A55g drivers with Crites B2 crossovers. I am not crossover savvy at all. Thinking about a drive upgrade for more clarity. Using PS Audio Stellar amp, awaiting arrival of Prima Luna tube preamp, thinking the pre will soften the sound, but not provide more clarity. 
many adice on getting better midrange clarity at I’ve 70db? Thanks

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I would check first that the diaphragm on the driver is okay. This is done both visually and with tone sweeps. 

 

I doubt that an amplifier or pre-amp will make a significant (not incremental) difference. 

 

As much as I enjoy Cornwalls, the midrange does have a touch of a "nasal" quality about it. This was partly reduced in the Cornwall 2. Still, they are a good speaker and better than most. 

 

Good luck,

-Tom

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