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Thoroughly Impressed with The Fives - REVIEW


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2 hours ago, SET12 said:

OK I think I found it! its at the very top of the page on the right?

yes---CLICK ON ACCOUNT SETTINGS -------------TO THE   LEFT OF THE PAGE --------------GO  DOWN  TO SIGNATURE

 

 

 

Manage your account settings, and set up social network integration.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, MeloManiac said:

 

I had a similar positive experience with this little hybrid tube amp, which was my introduction to the tube sound, since then I've bought the TubeCube 7 and I'm now the proud owner of the fabulous Leben CS300.

But that little cheap made-in-China amp with tubes blew away my  budget Marantz and Denon amps easily...

LINK to amazon

 

 

nobsound.JPG

Nice to know Thanks I have friend that is interested in this!

Yeah, IMO they certainly know how to make their stuff musical!

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BTW some years ago I heard the CS300 it was very nice I love EL84's.

Years ago I designed this EL84 Amp the top of it was brass the Outputs were salvaged from a Pilot Integrated Amplifier. The amplifier has been going strong still after 20yrs. 

 

 227650809_EL84poweramp.jpg.7e903a5f9b8e2e7b3ae7b6af5ee8e38a.jpg

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29 minutes ago, SET12 said:

BTW some years ago I heard the CS300 it was very nice I love EL84's.

Years ago I designed this EL84 Amp the top of it was brass the Outputs were salvaged from a Pilot Integrated Amplifier. The amplifier has been going strong still after 20yrs. 

 

 227650809_EL84poweramp.jpg.7e903a5f9b8e2e7b3ae7b6af5ee8e38a.jpg

In my experience the EL84s are excellent with Klipsch speakers. And compared to other tubes, they are not expensive, not even the good ones, like the Genalex Gold Lions. 

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On 1/16/2021 at 5:54 PM, SET12 said:

 

Hi all,

Its been many years since I have posted anything on the Klipsch Forum I mostly reside over on the AudioKarma forum.

 

fmalloy was recently over on AK and asked if I had any issues regarding the Fives. And I said no BUT! I to wasn't real happy about the midrange I found it a bit dark just as the reviewer pointed out in Sound & Vision Magazine and once more I was not allowed to hear a pair before buying as the dealer said they are back ordered due to a parts shortage. So I bought them.

 

First thing I thought was if they only had a little more treble energy that might bring the mids more into focus. I looked around for EQ's that used HDMI and I wasn't having any real luck.

Then I stumbled into the miniDSP and that looked promising but it was expensive. I looked a little more and for $55 I found this guy! Called the Fosi Q-4 Its no bigger than the palm of your hand it has bass and treble with an optical or coax in with RCA out along with its volume control. I use my own 40 watt wall wart that has a 2 amp 5 volt out. It needs just 1 amp if I recall correctly. I mostly listen to music with occasionally with my wife gone I use the Fives for movies as she doesn't like anything much over a low volume. But every chance I get with her gone I am listening to music and how!

 

 

OIP.uESi-4NRb11E6ZJwf03O3QHaHa?pid=Api&w 

I didn't expect much from this little guy since it was so cheap but I wanted to see what influence just adding a bit of treble would do for the Fives as I could really hear some of the potential that I felt the Fives have.

 

Well I got the Fosi and hooked up via analog in, I cranked the Fosi volume up so I could just use the Fives remote I added the treble and I was astonished!

I thought this is a match made in heaven in other words it was really a synergistic combination. And Wow it was nice, it had some real nice body wasn't lean sounding. It had a very, very nice presentation of the sound-stage with really great layering and to top it off it was really wide as it easily filled my 16 foot wide wall from floor to ceiling. I have recently gotten Sirius Radio and installed the App on my Roku Ultra. Listening to SPA (New Age Music) I was shocked at what I could hear. Of course I am a Jazz Man at heart and got similar results from Sirius.

 

Next I ordered some Schiit products namely their nicely constructed EQ $150 and I ordered their $100 AC that many people raved about on U-Tube. The EQ sounded the most interesting to try as it had 5 zones of adjustment.

 

I got the Schiit products and gave them a listen!

 

I unfortunately didn't like what I heard. Namely their presentation was very forward or up front and my biggest complaint was the combination was just to lean for my tastes so a few days later I sent the pair back for a refund as they have a 15 day satisfaction guarantee. I really like the company and their attitude towards customers, I did receive my refund so I can whole heartily recommend the company.

 

I will say the Schiit EQ was very transparent more so than the Fosi but the Fosi is just so much more musical and that's a big part of the game for me.

 

So in the end get yourself a Fosi Q-4 and I don't think you'll regret it. I read some where that the Fosi Q-4 was using the famed NE5532 Dual OP Amp. This is the one that my Sony X77ES player used that I had for 20yrs and that player was 40lbs and $2000 new. It played a lot of very nice music for me.

 

Next topic I want to tackle Speaker Stands

 

Because that was another area of great improvement to be had for me. BTW my stands are Monoliths by Monoprice 28in tall which puts the tweeters ear level for me. BTW Pangea sells the same stand under their name for $400/pair when I got mine from Monoprice for just $59/each! They are sand filled as well. I have the Fives front 2ft from my back wall 77in apart in front of my 65in LG OLED I have it on a 16ft wall centered. The Fives throw out such a large sound field that I find its necessary to have no open corners and equal distance to the side walls otherwise one side can sound louder than the other. The fives sound field can envelope my entire 14ft x 16ft listening space if the acoustic ambiance is in the recording. This is clearly astonishing from the Fives IMO for their price the internal amplifiers express space like a great Transmitting Tube amp would example like a Cary Audio 211 Transmitting Tube Amplifier and those my friends last I saw are $10,000/pair.

 

IMO though not perfect, but close enough Klipsch Engineering hit a Home run with the Fives!

 

SET12

 

 

 

 

I thought about an EQ as well, but the main reason I went for the Fives was precisely to avoid any extra devices and have a clean easy to use setup (w/ the HMDI ARC I don't even need to worry about turning them on/off).

The same way Klipsch already released a firmware upgrade to cut the bass, I believe they could release another one to "open" the tribble.

I have contacted their customer support end of year, still waiting for an answer/solution.

 

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4 hours ago, Helder said:

I thought about an EQ as well, but the main reason I went for the Fives was precisely to avoid any extra devices and have a clean easy to use setup (w/ the HMDI ARC I don't even need to worry about turning them on/off).

The same way Klipsch already released a firmware upgrade to cut the bass, I believe they could release another one to "open" the tribble.

I have contacted their customer support end of year, still waiting for an answer/solution.

 

 

Yeah, I can see that not being able to use the HDMI ARC could be a real let down for people as yourself. Especially if you wanted to use just one remote.

 

I looked for an EQ that could use an HDMI ARC but no such luck! And then there would be the cost and then dealing with sound quality like I did with Schiit DAC and EQ. 

 

I like the idea of the mini DSP its is very versatile and will a lot of room for adjustments. But I can't testify of its sound quality. And its about $200. The Fosi was $55 and is excellent.

 

I had LG's $1300 sound bar about a year or so ago the one that didn't analyze the room as the latest model does, but I don't know if I could live with its sound as it sound even leaner than my LG TV which does have a room analyzer but unfortunately only works for the internal speaker.

 

My wife doesn't like elevated TV or Movie volumes so the TV sound is just fine for her. My LG has the option of running both Internal Speaker and Optical out at the same time but of course I have to use the Fives remote and there is a lag between the two.

 

I have found that the Fives seem to have an audio detection that turns them on if audio is present but that doesn't take the place of a nice HMDI ARC.

 

I was nearly going to pull the trigger on Sennheiser AMBEO sound bar but that's $2500 weighs 40lbs it does go to 30hz and it sounds just great but then I read of the Klipsch Fives its got to do a better job with music and reviewers thought it killed most sound bars so I was hooked. But I wasn't able to listen to the Fives before purchasing but still I had some confidence in them. With my EQ most sound bars won't even come close IMO.

 

I do like having the variable EQ of the Fosi, occasionally I'll add the Fives boost as well when working around my Apt. The Fosi I keep fixed as I have found no real reason to touch its levels once set

 

Stands are a must have IMO and are a great help.

 

If you hear from Klipsch Customer Support please post it.

 

SET12

 

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On 1/17/2021 at 9:29 PM, Helder said:

I thought about an EQ as well, but the main reason I went for the Fives was precisely to avoid any extra devices and have a clean easy to use setup (w/ the HMDI ARC I don't even need to worry about turning them on/off).

The same way Klipsch already released a firmware upgrade to cut the bass, I believe they could release another one to "open" the tribble.

I have contacted their customer support end of year, still waiting for an answer/solution.

 

On 1/18/2021 at 2:47 AM, SET12 said:

 

Yeah, I can see that not being able to use the HDMI ARC could be a real let down for people as yourself. Especially if you wanted to use just one remote.

 

I looked for an EQ that could use an HDMI ARC but no such luck! And then there would be the cost and then dealing with sound quality like I did with Schiit DAC and EQ. 

 

I like the idea of the mini DSP its is very versatile and will a lot of room for adjustments. But I can't testify of its sound quality. And its about $200. The Fosi was $55 and is excellent.

 

I had LG's $1300 sound bar about a year or so ago the one that didn't analyze the room as the latest model does, but I don't know if I could live with its sound as it sound even leaner than my LG TV which does have a room analyzer but unfortunately only works for the internal speaker.

 

My wife doesn't like elevated TV or Movie volumes so the TV sound is just fine for her. My LG has the option of running both Internal Speaker and Optical out at the same time but of course I have to use the Fives remote and there is a lag between the two.

 

I have found that the Fives seem to have an audio detection that turns them on if audio is present but that doesn't take the place of a nice HMDI ARC.

 

I was nearly going to pull the trigger on Sennheiser AMBEO sound bar but that's $2500 weighs 40lbs it does go to 30hz and it sounds just great but then I read of the Klipsch Fives its got to do a better job with music and reviewers thought it killed most sound bars so I was hooked. But I wasn't able to listen to the Fives before purchasing but still I had some confidence in them. With my EQ most sound bars won't even come close IMO.

 

I do like having the variable EQ of the Fosi, occasionally I'll add the Fives boost as well when working around my Apt. The Fosi I keep fixed as I have found no real reason to touch its levels once set

 

Stands are a must have IMO and are a great help.

 

If you hear from Klipsch Customer Support please post it.

 

SET12

 

I tend to think exactly as Helder here. If Klipsch released a Bass cut mode, why not release a mode which further increases the highs and mids a bit (keeping the bass cut in place!), while they are developing  the app. I got hooked to the Fives with the idea of having not to buy any other equipment, pre-amps, amps, receivers and getting them turned on by just powering the TV. I can only place them max 25cm away from the back wall which is not helping the bass issue. THey are now located on the TV stand on at the same level as the TV. Have been thinking of buying small stands for them so that I could lift them up may be by 20cm. Don't know if this could help the bass to be less boomy and the highs to be clearer. 

 

Anyhow SET, thanks for telling about the EQ possibility with Fosi. 

 

Kalam

 

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I don't think the bass issue is directly causing the tribble issue, so we may have two separate things over here:

  • Bass
    • There are several options to play with if this is an issue
      • 3 bass levels on the speakers (with the latest firmware update)
      • Speakers location (distance from front/back wall, listening position, stands, etc)
      • On my situation, wall stands on the side of the TV cabinet solved the over bass issue (my bass sounds great even with the highest pre-set level)
  • Tribble/Voices
    • This is the one I am still struggling
      • There is no adjustment on the speakers (like for the bass)
      • I have tried all possible speakers and listening positions, from inside the TV cabinet, outside, different heights, close/away from front wall even on the floor!
      • Tried different sources, HDMI, Bluetooth, Optical, Analog
      • It is specially noticeable at low volumes, where I struggle to understand regular TV broadcasting voices (movies, news), but also different genres of music, voices/highs sound muffled
      • My wife keeps turning to the TV built in speakers whenever watching 😞 and I tend to do the same (850 unused euros 😞 )
      • External EQ is a great solution, but it kills the overall idea of the clean setup, we lose the HDMI ARC functionality and spend extra money to solve an issue that should not be there at this price range

Still waiting from Klipsch Customer Service where I reported this, three weeks passed, I am becoming nervous with this investment!

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/19/2021 at 2:09 PM, Kalam said:

I tend to think exactly as Helder here. If Klipsch released a Bass cut mode, why not release a mode which further increases the highs and mids a bit (keeping the bass cut in place!), while they are developing  the app. I got hooked to the Fives with the idea of having not to buy any other equipment, pre-amps, amps, receivers and getting them turned on by just powering the TV. I can only place them max 25cm away from the back wall which is not helping the bass issue. THey are now located on the TV stand on at the same level as the TV. Have been thinking of buying small stands for them so that I could lift them up may be by 20cm. Don't know if this could help the bass to be less boomy and the highs to be clearer. 

 

Anyhow SET, thanks for telling about the EQ possibility with Fosi. 

 

Kalam

 

The 28in stands worked out perfect for me. I just measured the height of the tweeters and they are at 38in. I had my wife measure my ear height and I'm at 40in. I sit about 9ft away from each speaker the speakers are not toed in. Speaker fronts are 2ft from the rear wall.

 

BTW I would buy these stands right away for $60 they are the very same stands that Pangea sells for $400 I kid you not! I verified the stands through photo's off an Audio Advisor sale from winter of 2019 sale catalog. They were identical. When the stands are filled with sand or in my case aquarium rock they can weigh close to 50lbs that gives the Fives a very solid foundation making the bass very firm and very fast. The rest of the range becomes very clear as well.

 

When I initially set up the fives I had them sitting 22in off the floor on my lowboy entertainment center with the fronts 18in from  the rear wall.

 

There is just no comparison to the performance with the stands period.

 

I use no bass cut and very few recordings seem to have an issue for me.

 

Guess it would be nice if they would have some treble  boost then I could think about taking out the Fosi.

 

But then again I might not be able to run these    928485166_TransformerVolumeControls.JPG.a24bd535e96fe0fc8ac15d36a4f3376d.JPG

 

Transformer Volume Controls allow the Fives to throw a whole new light onto the music. Most of the Fives volume control is nearly completely out of circuit. As well as the Fosi. The advantage of these is much better low to moderate volume performance preserving low level dynamics. Where as conventional volume controls compress music especially at lower level volumes. I got these as a kit from Intact Audio  http://www.intactaudio.com/atten.html man it looks as though these have really gone up in price. I think I paid half of what they are getting now. Mine are 23 position. I built these without to much trouble. Some of these have been going into $10,000 amplifiers and with good reason. Yes I still use the Fives remote but with the Transformers I can run the fives volume controls completely out of circuit. Most of the time I have  some travel with the fives volume control during most of my listening. I have always heard improved sound with these controls no matter how expensive a preamp or integrated amplifier was the sense of space can be pretty incredible with a pair of these. These are technically Auto Transformers  meaning that they only have a single winding with taps that lower or raise the signal levels this makes the transformer design issues much simpler and of much higher quality. Once I heard a set of these I knew I would never go back to conventional controls. I once had these on a $7000 Krell line stage and of course the Krells controls weren't bad but they were not to the level of these.

 

One has to remember that Audio Taper Volume Controls at the 12 o'clock position are only dumping 20% of the actual signal level coming in. So 80% of the signal coming in is attenuated. And that attenuation contributes to the compression.

 

And IMO resistor attenuators are not better then transformers. The problem some people feel is the heat generated by the attenuation contributes to compression.

 

Ever hear of Duelund Resistors? they have a negative temperature coefficient meaning that when the get heated their internal resistance falls. Most resistors have a positive coefficient. You ought to hear the Duelunds in a crossover network!

 

So in the end I'm after quality 2 channel. I can still use them with TV just not as simply as an HDMI ARC. 

 

Oh! I did a little test today, I run optical out to my Fosi then analog out to the Fives. I shut down my LG OLED, I had the Fives off as well. When I turned the LG back on the Fives came back up on their own with a short delay. Its as though the have a signal sense built in.

 

SET12 

 

 

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13 hours ago, SET12 said:

One has to remember that Audio Taper Volume Controls at the 12 o'clock position are only dumping 20% of the actual signal level coming in. So 80% of the signal coming in is attenuated.

Is this really true? Wow...

 

People brag how loud they get when the knob is at 9/10/11 o'clock or whatever, and the knob never goes past 12...to think about how little input level they're actually using...wasted amplifier power...

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On 1/30/2021 at 11:03 AM, fmalloy said:

Is this really true? Wow...

 

People brag how loud they get when the knob is at 9/10/11 o'clock or whatever, and the knob never goes past 12...to think about how little input level they're actually using...wasted amplifier power...

That is correct,

 

But actually its the source signal that is lost or attenuated, think of this, sometimes the source signal is better than a line stage because the gain circuit in a line stage maybe poor. Which was the case many times with my Sony X77ES.

 

Most volume controls look at the source signal directly. There are what we call interstage volume controls where the pot will be between gain stages.

 

You can measure a pot with an ohm meter,  an audio taper pot is easy enough I did it and shook my head. It one of the reasons I went source direct with my Sony X77ES for many years. I had more than enough gain built in to my power amps. 

 

Some will argue that a preamp is more involving regardless of gain and the active circuit makes up for any so called losses. But in my opinion it takes a darn good line stage to do so. I have heard a few, but I wasn't willing to pay 5-$10,000 to do so to get what I wanted. I enjoyed the extra transparency and because my amplifiers had enough front end gain I never felt any dynamic impact was lost. I also only had two gain stages before my speakers. A lot of SS amps can use as many 7 gain stages and that can be very departmental to the sound. I remember Audio Research had a SS amplifier with just 2 gain stages. I think this is pretty rare today. 

 

I once put those controls above on a $500 Marantz Integrated amplifier. The Marantz shocked me! It sounded more like a $2000 integrated. 

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Back to TV voicing concerns expressed by a couple of other posters...

I have ordered a pair of The Fives to arrive tomorrow to be used as a 2.1 system on my  (very open) family room TV.  Because of some of the concerns expressed in this thread combined with my wife having a problem hearing TV dialog I have also ordered a pair of Kanto TUK speakers.  Someone on another forum said those more bright TUK speakers (along with separately adjustable bass and treble) would be better for that.   I will demo them both and keep the set we like best.   I will report my findings back here (assuming that is within forum rules which I have not yet read).   I had been actively shopping for sound bars, but since I have a full 5.1.4 dedicated theater room, I thought I would focus on best sound for the dollar particularly because the room for The Fives is wide open with vaulted ceilings.   I really hope the Fives win the battle as I would value the convenience of the HDMI connection.   On another note, has anyone heard when Klipsch might release an app for the Fives which will allow more elaborate equalizer adjustments?

Edited by KingMota
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Got my Fives today.  So far very impressed with music and TV connection.  So far so good on TV dialog being intelligible (I am using a subwoofer).   I may not even open the TUK box when it arrives and just return them.   The only issue I have had is being able to update firmware (from 1.50 to 1.52) over bluetooth.   Music from both Bluetooth and Spotify on my Smart TV are awesome!

 

Update 2/13:  I have been using the Fives for a week and I am VERY happy with them.   They have been pretty flawless in operation (other than challenges in updating software).   The HDMI connection adds a great deal of convenience.   And most importantly, paired with my subwoofer they sound great both for TV and music.   I have a very large, open floor plan and they have no problem filling that house level with sound.   I am totally glad I got these over a soundbar.   I'm sure a receiver and speakers could be even better, but I know I would have continued to upgrade models and investment and spent more.

Edited by KingMota
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