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Trigger Pulled


jdmccall

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2 hours ago, Shakeydeal said:

How about an update? 🤔

Speakers are where I last left them:  I had moved them further apart but I guess I also toed them in a bit more, too, because they still measure 7' 9" apart center to center, while I'm sitting about 11' away.  Maybe not a perfect equilateral  triangle, but I ain't complaining.  I have the speaker's axis' crossing just in front of me, aiming at opposite shoulders.  I really don't like to hear speaker location, anyway, and I'm not now.  I think subs in/speakers out will push the speakers too far apart.  That said, I'll get around to trying it someday but I don't want to mess up the good that is going on right now.  It was almost a drop'em and rock'em set-up.  Even with the subs: I just cranked up to where they match well at the crossover and below, which only required cranking up their volume to match the cornwall's better, and tweaking the phase a bit.  Oh yeah, I did drop the x/o a bit today -down to 40Hz from the 50Hz setting I started with.  I had thought I had a little too much heaviness in the bass and now that seems banished.  They passed the "Money For Nothing" test today -with flying colors, I might add.  Prior to that, they also passed the "Flight of the Cosmic Hippo" test.  "Good rockin' tonight"! 😎

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They will get better, but you will get the naysayers who tell you it’s a myth. Mine have about 50 hours right now and they turned a major corner around 40 hours. I wouldn’t swear they are finished yet; but I really like what I hear.
 
Like all horns I’ve owned they will sound better the farther apart you can get them. I would try to get them at least another foot apart, more if you can. Keep us posted on what you hear.
 
Shakey
It is not a myth; however, there is more to it than the speakers breaking in solely in terms of hardware.

As Nelson Pass has said, ears are not microphones and the brain is not a tape recorder.

Sound from a HiFi system improves over time as the hardware breaks in and as the brain adapts/recalibrates to the information received through the ears.

The brain knows what a human voice sounds like and adapts to input stimuli to make them sound "normal."

It is all real, just realize there is more to it than the hardware.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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I've always wondered about how psycho-acoustics figures into our perception of speaker break-in.  I definitely think it is a factor, but how much of one, I don't know.  It does seem logical that mechanical moving parts will go through a break-in period, so I think both factors contribute to what we hear.

 

Holy-moly, how I've missed what I'm now hearing again; the startling dynamics and the crystalline delineation of detail!  Each instrument can be easily picked out of the mix.  Bass so powerful and clean!  I loved and enjoyed my 901's for over ten years, but this is a whole 'nother level of clarity and low distortion.  My 901's made lots of bass, but it was bass with a pillow-muted punch.  These Cornwalls....I wouldn't call it pile-driver bass...more like steam locomotive bass!  I honestly think I'm getting the best sound I've ever gotten.  I can't say it's the best sound I've ever heard; that honor still goes to the klipschorns I listened to in 1986 at Flip's Stereo in St. Louis, MO, but it's the best sound in my house!  Hap, hap, happy here in SW MO! 

 

Thanks PWK and to all the folks at Klipsch who are "the keepers of the sound"!  It's good to be home!!!

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6 hours ago, babadono said:

Ow! my back!:)

It was free, never said it would be fun, but you have to know if it's better, might move them twice ?

 

6 hours ago, babadono said:

Play with the toe in as well.

Yes, it can change everything.

 

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20 minutes ago, babadono said:

There are much better tunes on that "album" for evaluating speakers IMHO.

...And I listened to all of them!🙂  It's just that "Money For Nothing" is a tune, that when everything is as it should be, can put a big spontaneous, goofy, ear-to-ear smile on my face as soon as that guitar comes in in the opening.  And nothing I've owned has done that for me better than klipsch heritage speakers. 

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44 minutes ago, jdmccall said:

...And I listened to all of them!🙂  It's just that "Money For Nothing" is a tune, that when everything is as it should be, can put a big spontaneous, goofy, ear-to-ear smile on my face as soon as that guitar comes in in the opening.  And nothing I've owned has done that for me better than klipsch heritage speakers. 


So what was the verdict with the subs? Do they bring anything meaningful to the party? I’m still on the fence about adding one (or two)......

 

Shakey

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36 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said:


So what was the verdict with the subs? Do they bring anything meaningful to the party? I’m still on the fence about adding one (or two)......

 

Shakey

Confession...I haven't actually tried listening to the Cornwall IV's without the subs.  They were already in place and I have no other system for them, so...I was pretty much committed to using them whether I needed them or not.  With a 40Hz crossover, they should at least not be doing much to muck things up.  Although, that said, even with that low setting, I think they are making an audible contribution above that.  The controls on the Velodynes aren't real precise, plus there's considerable interaction between them.  I'll switch the subs out and run the cornwalls full-range soon, just out of curiosity. 

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  • 4 months later...

Well, over four months have elapsed since I got the Cornwall IV's and I just today finally got around to trying them full-range without subs.  Measurements were done with my trusty old Radio Shack analog spl meter and a Stereophile Test CD 2 disc.  They were stout down to the 50Hz range, dropping significantly below that but unexpectedly coming back to a usable level in the 25Hz band (my room's 22' length helps with that).  I didn't actually listen to any music without the subs.  I just took some measurements without them and decided there was no point in going further down that road.  That big drop in output in the 31.5 to 50 Hz range needed fixed!  So I proceeded to go thru my subwoofer set-up.  

 

First, since I use two subs, I balanced them with each other.  Then I balanced the subs with the speakers, running the Cornwalls full-range and rolling the subs off above 40Hz.  When I got that right, I played with phase.  I could not get a satisfactorily smooth output until I varied the phase of the subs with each other, running one at 90 degrees and one at 180.  That did the trick Measured response now was smooth (enough for me!) ... +/- 3dB from 25 to 160Hz. 

 

Time to "let there be music"!  Put on Stevie Wonder's  "Innervisions" and cranked it up to an appropriate level (The Lady of the Manor was away.)   Ah...that's real NICE!!  I also reduced the input level on the amp considerably to try to reduce a low-level buzz that seems to be coming thru the speakers from it.  I'd had it maxed out but was pretty much never getting the preamp volume control above 40 on it's 0-100 (or so) range.  I set them down to the mid-point and still only had to go to 60 on the preamp volume to get real loud.  Noise was much lower, too.

 

Oh yeah, I found a good use for those little circular rubber thingy's that Klipsch ships Heritage speakers with (behind the grilles).  I found they make good footers!  I put six under the front corners of each speaker.  Looks good and I think...they sound...better.  Maybe.  YMMV, of course.

 

And here's a new bad pic:

 

p.s.  I wonder whose idea it was to put the "Cornwall" badge right in front of the tweeter?

 

 

SAM_0753.JPG

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7 hours ago, jdmccall said:

 

p.s.  I wonder whose idea it was to put the "Cornwall" badge right in front of the tweeter?

 

 

 they  have been placing badges at the factory ,  for 46+ years on the Cornwall and Heresy , close to the tweeter , but they are not directly into the path of the tweeter , the grilles are meant to protect the speakers , and in any case , simply removing the grilles is very easy , with the magnet system ,  plus a CW IV is just as beautiful with grilles or without grilles -

 

 

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9 hours ago, RandyH000 said:

 they  have been placing badges at the factory ,  for 46+ years on the Cornwall and Heresy , close to the tweeter , but they are not directly into the path of the tweeter , the grilles are meant to protect the speakers , and in any case , simply removing the grilles is very easy , with the magnet system ,  plus a CW IV is just as beautiful with grilles or without grilles -

 

 

Well, I'll give'em that at least the badge isn't dead center in front of the tweeter.  It's slightly above but I would think it could still be blocking or reflecting some sound.  Not that I could ever hear the difference anyway as my high frequency hearing ain't what it used to be.  But still...it's just not a good look for a $3000 speaker, imho.  They could have mounted the badge in a corner as in the III's.  Just sayin'.  It's not like it's keeping me up nights.🙂

 

As for the grilles on all the latest Heritage...not a fan.  They can look great in the right light, but that's just the problem;  they are extremely sensitive to light.  They can look like something wet's been spilled on them a lot of the time, or that the cloth is sagging...but it's all light reflectivity effects playing tricks with the eyes.  I suspect it's the same thing that's causing the moire effect that shows up in a lot of pictures of new Heritage speakers.  Personally, I much prefer the looks of the old black grilles.  In fact, if I could buy a pair of Cornwall IV grilles in black from Klipsch, I'd already have them ordered...unless they were too crazy on the price, that is.  On the positive side, the current grilles do seem to be very acoustically transparent...and they can look great --in the right light (just like most of us!   I considered buying the CW3's instead of the 4's mainly because of the grilles and the price, but by the time I pulled the old trigger, new CW3's were getting pretty rare on the interwebs .  Still, I'm glad I got the 4's; they sound wonderful!  Plus I like the current natural cherry much better than the old "Heritage" cherry.  I would definitely have got walnut if I'd gone the CW3 route.  I think I'd have loved their sound, too (I loved my old '85 cornwalls so why wouldn't I love the 3's?).

 

Whilst I'm obsessing over speaker appearance, I may as well throw in my 2 cents worth on the grille/no grille subject.  I generally like speakers either way, but my preference depends on the speaker in question.  I love Cornwalls with black grilles on.  The new grilles...meh.  Without grilles, I like the looks in lower light conditions but less so in bright lighting.  Too many visible fasteners (any visible fasteners)  tend to ruin the naked look.  Same reason people most always look much better COVERED UP!!  OK...with people, it's not fasteners, but you get the point.  Also, to look best naked, the speaker should be veneered on the front!  Put the dad-gummed expensive and purty would where we can see it!!!  Grilles...I really love metal mesh grilles and perforated metal grilles, but I imagine the dimensions of the cornwall would rule that out.  So...I'm not crazy about'em naked.  I like'em but not without caveats. 

 

Oh gee, I think it's time to take my meds.  It will all seem better then.:wacko2:

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