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Bobby2xs

WTB heritage center

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Hi all! I’m right outside of Nashville looking to buy a center for my heritage setup. I’ve seen people on here that have built a 3-way center with a mid and tweeter taken from either a Heresy or Cornwall donor. I’m super interested in a build like that! If not I’m looking for an academy or KV-4. I’m running Cornwall L/R and forte 2 surrounds and a KV-3 center in my 5.1setup. Right now and it sounds pretty good, but for those of us that frequent this page, pretty good ain’t gon’ cut it!

Thanks in advance!

Bobby Bobby 2 2 Times Times!

Edited by Bobby2xs
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The original Heritage center was a Heresy.  Later a Cornwall.  At some point La Scala was used, and for duty between two Klipschorns, or any two fully horn loaded (horn loaded even in the bass) LF and RF speakers, either La Scala or Belle Klipsch was recommended,  because, since they were fully horn loaded, they would have the very low Frequency Modulation distortion that the front sides had.  This was covered in one of the later Dope from Hope bulletins, and was meant for Klipsch's 3 channel Wide Stage Stereo (before home theater).

 

Will this be for movies, music or both?

 

Since you have Cornwall L & R, you could use a Cornwall center, or, for added dialog clarity a La Scala or a Belle.  Or, as you mentioned, make your own center out of donations from some Klipsch speaker. The La Scala or the Belle won't have as much bass as the Cornwall, but, you might not want that much bass in a center, because, for movies, it is largely a dialog channel.  When Berkeley Custom Electronics was helping a local Art House re-vamp it's sound, it was recommended to avoid too much bass, for dialog clarity.  So, they put in La Scalas.  I use a Belle Klipsch for a center, modified with a full length mid-horn (K401, yes, it sticks out the back, so the center is set into a wall) to match the Khorns on the sides.  On ~~ 90% of the movies, it sounds great, but for about 10%, there is too much bass.  For films with characters with cockney accidents this can be bad, the original British version of Train Spotting, I thought I'd need a translator.

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Garyrc thanks for the reply! I’m familiar with the history, however my space won’t allow for a proper 3rd floor standing speaker. Even the heresy is too large so I need a horizontal speaker.
 

The academy and KLF-c7 are the best compromise. But I’ve seen a few members that have built a center with 6.5 woofers and a k77 and k55, which I would love to buy if someone can recreate it with a decent crossover. It would be for a 50/50 mix of movies and music. 

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Would turning the heresy on it’s side leave too narrow of a sweet spot? Most of the center horns I’ve seen on center speakers are square horns for off axis dispersion. I would imagine the heresy on its side would make the image tall instead of wide. Really I’m hoping someone has a good set of plans for the heritage center that I referred to in the op.

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Would turning the heresy on it’s side leave too narrow of a sweet spot? 

 

No. The Cornwall was made with vertical and horizontal horn layout

 

How about a Heresy slant monitor?  They lay on their sides.

 

 

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The Cornwall with vertical tweeters were made to be used as a center channel by laying it on its side so the dispersion would be wide. They were made to be used as the center channels today are. The vertical Cornwall were in fact made to be placed on the side with arrows showing that was the correct placement, thus making the squaker and tweeter horizontal for dispersion.

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OK forget about the academy..... it has a vertical tweeter 

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I’m not sure why the tweeter is vertical on the academy. Maybe the waveguide helps dispersion? Not trying to be argumentative, that’s what I read about vertical Cornwall and slanted heresy. I’ve also heard mixed reviews on the Academy but I know this KV-3 I have isn’t the right answer for me. And I know the wife isn’t going to let me replace her fireplace home Entertainmet center with another Cornwall! Though out of all the speakers I have the Cornwall are the ones she said I can never get rid of!!

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This thread has some interesting things to say about how horns interact vertically or horizontally. Pretty interesting, some of it’s buzzing right past me though😆

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Go phantom.  It's what I've done for years after trying an Academy and other centers. 

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I have a set of series 1s that I had 3 speakers and 1 had a very poor cabinet while the other 2 looked better still needed to have cabinets restored. I decided to mirror finish black lacquer 2 and use the 3rd to make a center channel that would look more like a modern style center using both horns and opted for 2x 6.75” DCM dual 5.5 ohm VC woofers removed from a pair of large bookshelf's. I had to fabricate the entire cabinet and crammed everything in as tightly as possible without loosing strength on motorboard. I used typical techniques for cabinet design with dato cuts to groove sides around motorboard, all block backed seams, 45s on sides inset back piece. All 3/4” 7 layer oak veneer plywood  with no voids. Cab is 100% perfectly square, solid and sounds great, crossover was used with minor tweaks, all caps were tested using ESR meter and were dead on.

 

Since the woofers are a 5.5ohm load, I added a 15 ohm 10watt resistor to the woofer out put to impeedance match it to retain proper crossover point. I also moved the mids and tweeters down 1 setting on the autoformer to achieve a better sound output that very closely matches the 2 others. Al 3 had the drivers moved to the front of the boards. To keep motorboard strength I did not inset the drivers, I also moved them as close as possible to each other. To mount them on the front required the horns backside of the flanges to be flattened since they are cast with a thicker area in the center of the side flanges that tapers out towards the top and bottom flanges.There was a piece of textured hardboard precision cut to fit over all drivers on all 3 to give it a very different look and make the drivers appear to be flush mounted. All frond edges were rounded to reduce deflection further. 

 

This design and fabrication took about a week then 2 weeks to finish the cabinet exterior. The other 2 have not had any crossover changes and all caps tested exactly perfect.  This set of 3 sounds better than my series 2 set by far. I would like to sell all 3 or even 5 including the series 2 set also redone in mirror finish black Lacquer. Since I did make the most creative design I could think of the set of 3 really needs to be sold together.

 

I have named them the Heresy Tiki Series 1. Asking $1000 for the set of 3, $750 for the series 2 set, all 5 for $1500. There's about $750 just in paint and supplies, plus 4 months of all day every day labor that went into these, all 4 regular sized speakers are using all original parts, all caps were tested, all original wires but the series 1 set has updated binding posts.

 

IMG_20200503_142242.jpg

0816201835b0.jpg

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On 8/4/2020 at 4:39 AM, garyrc said:

The original Heritage center was a Heresy.  Later a Cornwall.  At some point La Scala was used, and for duty between two Klipschorns, or any two fully horn loaded (horn loaded even in the bass) LF and RF speakers, either La Scala or Belle Klipsch was recommended,  because, since they were fully horn loaded, they would have the very low Frequency Modulation distortion that the front sides had.  This was covered in one of the later Dope from Hope bulletins, and was meant for Klipsch's 3 channel Wide Stage Stereo (before home theater).

 

Will this be for movies, music or both?

 

Since you have Cornwall L & R, you could use a Cornwall center, or, for added dialog clarity a La Scala or a Belle.  Or, as you mentioned, make your own center out of donations from some Klipsch speaker. The La Scala or the Belle won't have as much bass as the Cornwall, but, you might not want that much bass in a center, because, for movies, it is largely a dialog channel.  When Berkeley Custom Electronics was helping a local Art House re-vamp it's sound, it was recommended to avoid too much bass, for dialog clarity.  So, they put in La Scalas.  I use a Belle Klipsch for a center, modified with a full length mid-horn (K401, yes, it sticks out the back, so the center is set into a wall) to match the Khorns on the sides.  On ~~ 90% of the movies, it sounds great, but for about 10%, there is too much bass.  For films with characters with cockney accidents this can be bad, the original British version of Train Spotting, I thought I'd need a translator.

 

 

 

Hey Gary !!!

 

Both Belle and LaScala only play down to 55 Hz but they are not even working as a Horn below 100 Hz because the Horn is way to short for below 100 Hz. Cross your speakers at 100 Hz and hire Carl to build you one or a pair of F-20 DIY horn suns. Problem with dialogue instantly solved.

 

Also, did you change out the cross overs in your Belle's ?? The Belle Cross over crosses the midrange too high for a K-400 horn...

 

Roger

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On 8/4/2020 at 6:54 AM, Skelt said:

Would turning the heresy on it’s side leave too narrow of a sweet spot? 

 

No. The Cornwall was made with vertical and horizontal horn layout

 

How about a Heresy slant monitor?  They lay on their sides.

 

 

 

 

Slant Monitors also fit perfectly in a corner at a perfect 45 degree angle, just like Klipschorns and this increases their bass output as well.

 

Rog

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On 8/4/2020 at 2:58 AM, Bobby2xs said:

Hi all! I’m right outside of Nashville looking to buy a center for my heritage setup. I’ve seen people on here that have built a 3-way center with a mid and tweeter taken from either a Heresy or Cornwall donor. I’m super interested in a build like that! If not I’m looking for an academy or KV-4. I’m running Cornwall L/R and forte 2 surrounds and a KV-3 center in my 5.1setup. Right now and it sounds pretty good, but for those of us that frequent this page, pretty good ain’t gon’ cut it!

Thanks in advance!

Bobby Bobby 2 2 Times Times!

 

 

Bobby,

 

Have you considered a single Split La Scala ? That is the best option as far as II am concerned. If a La Scala is too tall, you can set the top section dead center on top of a milk crate and set the bass bin off center to either side of the top hat since the bass is less directional. I need a single Split La Scala with trim like one of these if you are interested in splitng a pair.

 

Roger Gordon

 

IMG_2596.jpg.9779155d4c5fa43c8ff68204d9977ca0.jpg

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10 hours ago, twistedcrankcammer said:

Also, did you change out the cross overs in your Belle's ?? The Belle Cross over crosses the midrange too high for a K-400 horn ...

 

I didn't change out the crossover.   The Klipsch spec sheet I have (from 2014, after the Belle was discontinued) says that the crossovers are at 450 Hz (and 4,500 Hz), the same as the Klipschorn.  Maybe it's a misprint or they were undergoing changes near the end of production?

 

What would be the consequences of having the crossover between the bass and the midrange too high for the K-400 (mine is actually a K-401).

 

Thanks for the tip on the F-20 DIYs....

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Hi @Bobby2xs,

 

Yeah ... had the same problem (almost) :)  Tried various centers and was not impressed. Best solution was using 2 Heresies with a center Heresy on my TV setup. (Also hooked up  are KPT-904's, but hardly ever use them for TV). Sound is excellent, and I am pretty sure you can "flip" the center without any sound problems. (Have my K-510 horns flipped 90 degrees and cannot hear any difference :) )  If you have enough room underneath the TV, that probably is the best way to go.  If not, @Foxman's suggestion for Bob Crites' center channel is interesting - but not familiar with it :( 

 

But, my center Heresy was "underneath" the TV ... HAHA; in front of the fireplace. Even though we are in Florida and almost never use the fireplace, my wife was "not pleased."  Went back to a phantom 2 speaker setup and have never missed the center :D 

 

Good luck ... keep us posted.

 

Cheers, Emile

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5 hours ago, garyrc said:

 

I didn't change out the crossover.   The Klipsch spec sheet I have (from 2014, after the Belle was discontinued) says that the crossovers are at 450 Hz (and 4,500 Hz), the same as the Klipschorn.  Maybe it's a misprint or they were undergoing changes near the end of production?

 

What would be the consequences of having the crossover between the bass and the midrange too high for the K-400 (mine is actually a K-401).

 

Thanks for the tip on the F-20 DIYs.

 

 

Gary,

 

The K-400 or K-401 La Sccala or Klipschorn Horn is capable of going down to 400 Hz. Male Vocals can also go down as low as 300 Hz. Better to handle as many of these vocals through the Midrange Squawker than the Woofer, so just make sure you have the proper La Scala or Klipschorn cross over as the Belle does not use a 400 or 401 horn as you already know. Also, the K-43E Pro La Scala has much stronger Mid Bass than the K-33E for this as well.

 

Roger Gordon

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