CECAA850 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 I was wondering if anyone else had experienced this. I recently acquired a set of 2 way EV speakers. Thinking that they were 20 or 30 years old I'd recap them. I've seen where a lot of people have used and recommended Dayton caps so I ordered enough caps to rebuild them both. If it matters, the HF circuit had a 3.5uf and 25uf cap. I capped only one board as I wanted to AB the speakers with my balance control on my pre to see if I could hear a difference. The newly recapped speaker lost a little bit of volume and definitely some high end sparkle. For confirmation I got my daughter to listen to them, not telling her which was which. She immediately heard the same thing that I did. OK, I next pulled the Daytons out and put the stock ones back. Sounded perfect. Now I'm starting to doubt myself. Did I maybe wire the HF out of polarity? I've got to know. I pulled the crossover.....again..... and soldered the Daytons back and paid close attention to the wiring. All was good. Same thing, less highs and slightly less volume. Put the stock ones back in and all was good. Now I'm pissed. I pulled all the caps and measured them thinking I had a bad cap. The stock 25 read 24.8, Dayton 25. Stock 3.5 read 3.58 and Dayton was 3.54. Are the Daytons that laid back???? If not, what am I missing? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 Burnin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted August 11, 2020 Author Share Posted August 11, 2020 8 minutes ago, billybob said: Burnin? I wouldn't think so. I've used other caps and they sound good right from the get go. They may change slightly over time but not this much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 Strange then as they measure within tolerances... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 The 25uF is probably the shunt cap for the low pass. Since you notice it mostly in the highs, you might have a bad 3.5uF. You would need an ESR meter to know for sure -- or ... pull them again and solder your other 3.5 in there. The other possibility is your shitty soldering. 🙂 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted August 11, 2020 Author Share Posted August 11, 2020 10 minutes ago, Deang said: The 25uF is probably the shunt cap for the low pass. Since you notice it mostly in the highs, you might have a bad 3.5uF. You would need an ESR meter to know for sure -- or ... pull them again and solder your other 3.5 in there. The other possibility is your shitty soldering. 🙂 The low pass has a 50 and a 75. I measured them with an ESR meter, actually a Fluke that can measure capacitance see the readings above. Did you read the whole post????? LOL I guess I only shitty solder Daytons and good solder the stock ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 Sorry, missed the reference to that being in the HF. I saw the capacitance results, I didn't see where you measured ESR. This is weird for sure. One of those caps has to be bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted August 11, 2020 Author Share Posted August 11, 2020 6 minutes ago, Deang said: I saw the capacitance results, I didn't see where you measured ESR Explain to the novice (me obviously) the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted August 11, 2020 Author Share Posted August 11, 2020 Obviously the adage of "if it sounds bad and measures good then you're measuring the wrong thing" is in play here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 "ESR is the sum of in-phase AC resistance. It includes resistance of the dielectric, plate material, electrolytic solution, and terminal leads at a particular frequency. ESR acts like a resistor in series with a capacitor (thus the name Equivalent Series Resistance)." In a new capacitor, it is usually related to poor lead terminations. To measure ESR, you need an ESR meter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 https://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/pdf/Papers/impendance_dissipation_factor_ESR.pdf Math....Ay Carumba! Would be interesting to measure ESR at say 1 or 2 kHz. Cheapo meters are going to measure at 120 Hz (full wave rectified line freq) for P.S. caps. as per our conversation. Your idea of just trying Audyns? (spelling) and see what changes is probably the way to go. What does Dean think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted August 11, 2020 Author Share Posted August 11, 2020 20 minutes ago, Deang said: To measure ESR, you need an ESR meter. What are the units of measurements? So I've measured capacitance and not ESR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted August 11, 2020 Author Share Posted August 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, babadono said: What does Dean think? See above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, CECAA850 said: What are the units of measurements? Ooooohhhhhmmmmmmm....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, CECAA850 said: See above. I mean just foregoing the Daytons and switching to Audyns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlthess40 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 I used Dayton’s in my Klipsch H1’s and have the very same problem, and yes I did Measure the ESR as I have a ESR meter. and I tested to make sure they were within specs. They are the +/ -10% and they were within 2%And I’ve lost a lot of my highs and some of the mids as well Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 Or, ..... just use the OEM caps and enjoy. Not all old caps need replacement. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted August 11, 2020 Author Share Posted August 11, 2020 12 minutes ago, JohnA said: Or, ..... just use the OEM caps and enjoy. Not all old caps need replacement. Hind sight is 20 20 John. New ones are on the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted August 11, 2020 Author Share Posted August 11, 2020 17 minutes ago, carlthess40 said: I used Dayton’s in my Klipsch H1’s and have the very same problem, and yes I did Measure the ESR as I have a ESR meter. and I tested to make sure they were within specs. They are the +/ -10% and they were within 2% And I’ve lost a lot of my highs and some of the mids as well Interesting. I wonder why no one has commented on it previously. It wasn't a subtle difference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted August 11, 2020 Author Share Posted August 11, 2020 35 minutes ago, babadono said: I mean just foregoing the Daytons and switching to Audyns. Doesn't matter. It's going to happen at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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