The Influence of room acoustics on the listening experience

[MicroMara]

How to place Cornwall Speaker according to Klipsch recommondation

 

[Tom05]

On 8/25/2020 at 1:19 PM, MicroMara said:

 

@tube fanatic  This is an example of how you should certainly not do it, but I think that @MechEngVic just wanted to make fun. He only has to move the office chair backwards.

 

Maynard .....you are also of the hearing type a fine delicated listener. A few hundred milliwatts are already enough for you. On average I  hear only at 55 - 65 dB volume, taht is below 1 Watt as well, but sometimes I´m turn up to 115 dB sonic pressure.  I have a music room with a volume of approx. 8.500 kubicfeet, a room height up to 17 feet,  on a base of 22 feet length by 18 feet wide. When we were rebuilding the house, acoustic engineers built my music room. The result is a reverberation time of only 0.2 seconds, that references to Studio Quality. 

 

 

 

 

A reverberation time of .2 is a good target 🤓

[MicroMara]

Just now, Tom05 said:

A reverberation time of .2 is good for many types of music , like rock music , however , a .4 reverb time is usually considered more appropriate for classical music listening.🤓

Agree to your point of view , I listen classic music with my headphones only .

[Tom05]

BTW , beautiful room and setup👍

[KT88]

This is a valuable thread. I assume that most of you know the book by Floyd Toole.“Sound Reproduction…“ For those who are not in the know here is a link to a free pdf copy even if it is not the latest issue it is worth a read.

 

https://we.riseup.net/assets/443799/Sound+Reproduction+The+Acoustics+and+Psychoacoustics+of+Loudspeakers+and+Rooms+Floyd+Toole.pdf

[MicroMara]

17 hours ago, KT88 said:

This is a valuable thread. I assume that most of you know the book by Floyd Toole.“Sound Reproduction…“ For those who are not in the know here is a link to a free pdf copy even if it is not the latest issue it is worth a read.

 

https://we.riseup.net/assets/443799/Sound+Reproduction+The+Acoustics+and+Psychoacoustics+of+Loudspeakers+and+Rooms+Floyd+Toole.pdf

Thanx a lot Heinz , you´re right beside the room acoustics there´re many other important facts on the listening experience to be involved , but I suppose that no one will read close to 600 pages

 

For this reason I put a simple grahic in this thread that will be understood quite easy for everybody, even it´s in german language, pics speaking for themselfes. Of course, this graphic does not claim to have the same content as your link did.

 

      Objective acoustic - Psycho acoustic-  Subjective acoustic

 

 

    

        

                Physics                   Ear                          Subjective acoustic

                                                     filters                                filters

            Sound pressure-     Metrics, Volume                Emotions

                    level                    Sharpness

                 

          Measurement             Calculation                    Questioning

 

[MicroMara]

Based on a discussion in another thread about how to place La Scala in your listening room I´ll copy a short instruction guideline here as well as the owners manual for Hertage Speakers as pdf file.

 

PLACEMENT
Your La Scala Loudspeakers will perform well in a variety of locations but best results will be achieved using the following general guidelines:
• Place on a common wall 6 to 15 feet apart.
• Position them equidistant from the wall behind the speakers. Equidistant height above the floor with the high frequency drivers at seated ear height if wall or cabinet mounted.
• Angle speakers toward the listener and even with or forward of any adjacent obstructions.
• Placing them near a corner or wall provides the greatest amount of bass while moving the speakers away from room boundaries reduces bass energy.
• Asymmetrical placement of a pair of speakers from adjacent side walls can smooth room-induced bass unevenness.
• Experiment with the above guidelines to suit your taste and to compensate for your room's acoustic characteristics.

 

 

39687924_la-scala-ii.pdf

 

[MicroMara]

Nothing new on this topic, just wanted to bring this thread forward again before it disappears into the Klipsch nirvana of nothingness

[Idontknow]

In that case I'll say this. I don't know why reviews of the Forte speakers say they are better further from the wall. I think they sound way better closer to the wall. 

[Flevoman]

Great topic.

In the opening post there is also shown a picture with how to place the speakers with beneeth the picture this line

 

"valid for slimline floorstanding Speakers like e.g. Klipsch RF7´s, RF 82, RP 280F , RP 8000 and others not for Klipsch Heritage Line like Forte , CW , LaScala, KHorn )" 

 

Just wondering, why is this not meant for the CW? ,and how should the CW be placed? 

 

[MicroMara]

11 minutes ago, Flevoman said:

Great topic.

In the opening post there is also shown a picture with how to place the speakers with beneeth the picture this line

 

"valid for slimline floorstanding Speakers like e.g. Klipsch RF7´s, RF 82, RP 280F , RP 8000 and others not for Klipsch Heritage Line like Forte , CW , LaScala, KHorn )" 

 

Just wondering, why is this not meant for the CW? ,and how should the CW be placed? 

 

 

Regards to the netherlands , I know that you´re trying to find your best holographic position for your CW´s . Scroll up on page 4 , but what you will see is what you allready know as well . It´s the graphic from your CW´s user manual how to place the CW`S .  Looks like you still haven´t found the best solution . Can´t imagine that´s difficult ....

[Flevoman]

Well, this is why I'm asking. 

To me both pictures are exactly the  same. 

Just wondering if there is something I don't see. 

 

About my situation, I've tried everything and how it is for now is how I keep it. 

Speakers are towed in and the X-line is exactly at my position. Speakers are moved 20 cm further from the wall.

The side most close to the wall is now 1 feet away. 

I think this is the best situation for me. 

Next step will be placing damping material on the wall behind me. These days you can buy good looking acoustic panels. 

Looking for some more information atm if they are really worth it 

 

[MicroMara]

7 minutes ago, Flevoman said:

Well, this is why I'm asking. 

To me both pictures are exactly the  same. 

Just wondering if there is something I don't see. 

 

About my situation, I've tried everything and how it is for now is how I keep it. 

Speakers are towed in and the X-line is exactly at my position. Speakers are moved 20 cm further from the wall.

The side most close to the wall is now 1 feet away. 

I think this is the best situation for me. 

Next step will be placing damping material on the wall behind me. These days you can buy good looking acoustic panels. 

Looking for some more information atm if they are really worth it 

 

I think you´re on the right way , the room acoustics are the main point , if that doesn´t fit ..the best gear makes no sense . some examples are shown here

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=Absorber+Bilder+Audio&client=firefox-b-d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjbx7CwwLH8AhXqhv0HHc9HBC4Q_AUoAXoECA4QAw&biw=1451&bih=775&dpr=1.76

 

But you also can diy them with insulating materials enclosed in wooden frames and covered with a simple fabric

[Flevoman]

I don't know yet what is the better choise for me. 

Absorbing materials or diffusing panels. 

The picture above is absorbing the sound somewhat. 

More expensive, but I like the end result. 

But these two are defusers. 

Bit cheaper and more easy to place. 

These look also pretty good in my opinion. 

What are the requirements to use absorbing materials or go for defusing panels? 

[MicroMara]

28 minutes ago, Flevoman said:

I don't know yet what is the better choise for me. 

Absorbing materials or diffusing panels. 

The picture above is absorbing the sound somewhat. 

More expensive, but I like the end result. 

But these two are defusers. 

Bit cheaper and more easy to place. 

These look also pretty good in my opinion. 

What are the requirements to use absorbing materials or go for defusing panels? 

Well what to choose isn´t that easy , try to find out where you´ve have reflections in your listening space , easy thing to do is simple clap hand , hear where you have something like an echo , what about the floor, is it wooden floor, stone floors, do you have curtains in front of the windows, carpets and so on. Just a few thoughts .........more professional will be RWE Room measurement tools with an Umik II mircrophone , the software is free of charge as download in the www. Umik II is well know ....

 

https://www.roomeqwizard.com/

 

[MicroMara]

 fyi ...there´s a vid on page two about RWE embedded in this thread

[Flevoman]

Thank you for the tip. 

I know it's hard to give any advise. 

I'm trying to find all kind of information now just to understand what are the difference between these two options and when to use what. 

This is also why I found your post by the way 😉

What I have understand so far is  difusers are best used for the front and back wall. 

 

In my situation there is not much side reflection. 

My room is 12m deep and the speakers are in the middle of the room. 

So it's more the floor, ceiling and back wall. 

I have a wooden floor with a carpet in front of the speakers. 

And bought a fabric sofa specially for the acoustic. 

If I sit on my listening position and I clap in my hands I can hear a some amount of eccho.

This is the reason why I want to do something with the back wall (and maybe the ceiling as well) 

 

Edit:found the video 👍🏻

[mikebse2a3]

1 hour ago, Flevoman said:

If I sit on my listening position and I clap in my hands I can hear a some amount of eccho.

This is the reason why I want to do something with the back wall (and maybe the ceiling as well) 

 

FYI… doing a CLAP TEST (clap test from listening position) as you described is not very helpful and can be misleading as to problem reflections and locations. If someone wants to perform a “CLAP TEST” It is a much better method to have someone “CLAP” from the speaker location while you are in the listening position or even better are with some TEST CDs that have a “CLAP TEST TRACK” which provides a consistent CLAP Sound and can be performed without any assistance from another person.

 

miketn

 

Here is a test CD with a CLAP TEST TRACK as an example.