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Crossover design


VDS

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Hi,

After getting a set of Cornwalls and ding some driver upgrades(?) I’m coming to the realization that crossovers are far more important than I ever realized to optimize the potential of each driver and blend the 3 together.  Beside reading this forum, which is huge, how can I start to learn the intricacies of crossover design?  Currently I have a new set of Cries B2’s that I thought I could start to slowly modify as I lean, I also have a 10 yr old set of Crites B3.  I feel like I can learn as I go by solving problems I hear, but how to start.

Related issue, I feel I need a mic and software to really do this, is this right? What should I get?

i don’t expect a tutorial, just a shove in the right direction

thanks, Ted

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Going to simplify this..speakers sound good, but “distorted” at moderately loud volume.  I’m realizing crossover is way more important than previously thought. Want to be more careful in “upgrading”

would getting ALK universals be wise to try different settings, mic and software to hopefully “see” the problem so I’m more informed how to find solution?  I like tinkering with these, but need a more methodical approach.  Thought of getting dcm50 mid drivers, but I think that requires crossover overhaul.i could use some mentoring from the group, thanks, Ted

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Hi VDS,

The crossover is what I think of as the soul of your speaker "system". I say system because all the parts of the speaker, including the cabinet and how the drivers are arranged in the cabinet form that system. If you change anything, you are likely going to need to revise the crossover.

 

To do crossover modifications you must measure the speaker. To do this you need a mic and some software. Considering  the cost of drivers and crossover parts the outlay (to me) is relatively small and can reap major benefits, ie help you find the true potential of your system.

 

Once you've measured your system you need to get those measurements in to a crossover design software such as XSim or VituixCAD and begin designing.

 

There's a learning curve for sure, but once you get through the jargon and understand the process its actually quite straight forward. Both of those threads are great places to understand it all.

 

I have been through this process with my lovely KG 5.5's. The effort was well worth the improvement, to me😉

 

Good luck.  🍻

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On 8/19/2020 at 7:37 PM, Maz4bz said:

Hi VDS,

The crossover is what I think of as the soul of your speaker "system". I say system because all the parts of the speaker, including the cabinet and how the drivers are arranged in the cabinet form that system. If you change anything, you are likely going to need to revise the crossover.

 

To do crossover modifications you must measure the speaker. To do this you need a mic and some software. Considering  the cost of drivers and crossover parts the outlay (to me) is relatively small and can reap major benefits, ie help you find the true potential of your system.

 

Once you've measured your system you need to get those measurements in to a crossover design software such as XSim or VituixCAD and begin designing.

 

There's a learning curve for sure, but once you get through the jargon and understand the process its actually quite straight forward. Both of those threads are great places to understand it all.

 

I have been through this process with my lovely KG 5.5's. The effort was well worth the improvement, to me😉

 

Good luck.  🍻

Yes, feel like the measuring approach is what I need to do.  I got the BC dcm50’s, they are really nice, I won’t try to describe them, but they are startlingly “present” at times.

I see getting these as a 2 step process, now I need to figure out how optimize these drivers with possible crossover updates.  Currently have Crites B2’s, which Bob included the ability to connect the squawker to terminal 1,2 or 3, and the ability to change capacitance from 3 to 1.5uf on the squawker/tweeter lead before the autoformer.  I currently am hooked to terminal 2 with the full 3uf.  I feel like my ignorance of crossovers is really a problem. I’m reading everything on this forum with the word crossover in it! 
thanks for everybody on this forum!

Edited by VDS
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27 minutes ago, Deang said:

How did you connect a driver with a 2” exit to a horn with a 1” entry. 

Dean, I replaced k600, with a k510, 10x18” with 2” entry.  Probably a rash decision, I’m not sure,  But I had read a lot of good comments on forum about this horn so I front mounted it.  
I need crossover help to tie all this together! Any advice greatly appreciated. 
Or willingness to build me a set of anything you think will work, or a schematic, or opinion.  I’m reading everything I can on design, but I’ve got a ways to go!

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12 minutes ago, Deang said:

Which tweeter?

Crites 120. Big improvement over k77! Eminence 3015 L.F. 4 woofer.  Like I say I feel like the proper network is needed to tie together what may be a jumbled mess!

 

Edited by VDS
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4 minutes ago, Deang said:

Dcm50 8 ohm or 16 ohm version?

 

Are these speakers near the walls or corners?

8 ohm, I did not see they are offered in 16. 
I’ve moved them all over, I built 4” tall stands on wheels to make it easier.  Generally about  6” out from wall, 2’ from corners. I got a used Ps Audio class D amp that helped bass tightness a lot.

 

its obvious I’m begging you to sell me networks right?....just wanted to make sure!

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Lol

 

You might be okay with the ones you have. I have to do some math. Give me a few. 
 

You need to get them off the wheels, flat on the floor, and within a foot of the walls or corners. You are losing a ton of bass. 

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5 minutes ago, Deang said:

Lol

 

You might be okay with the ones you have. I have to do some math. Give me a few. 
 

You need to get them off the wheels, flat on the floor, and within a foot of the walls or corners. You are losing a ton of bass. 

Any advice to mod the B2 would be great, Thanks

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5 minutes ago, Deang said:

Use the 1.5uF capacitor.

 

Use Tap 1 for the DCM 50. 


Move the tweeter to Tap 3 (for now). 

Here’s what I got from Bob.  Tap 1 for squawker lead,  disconnect top 1.5uf(leaving bottom 1.5 in play)

move tweeter lead from terminal 4 to 3

Do I have that right? Thanks

F7527176-82D5-4771-AF49-9688DE4CCFB1.jpeg

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Yep. Bob and me are in agreement. Happens more often then most realize. 
 

My build would be similar to Bob’s, but I would add a bandpass, lower the crossover point a bit, use a 3rd order tweeter filter, and use film and foil capacitors. It would definitely sound better. 
 

If you listen really loud, you’ll need steeper slopes. Call Al, but do not buy the CornScalaWall. 

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8 minutes ago, Deang said:

Yep. Bob and me are in agreement. Happens more often then most realize. 
 

My build would be similar to Bob’s, but I would add a bandpass, lower the crossover point a bit, use a 3rd order tweeter filter, and use film and foil capacitors. It would definitely sound better. 
 

If you listen really loud, you’ll need steeper slopes. Call Al, but do not buy the CornScalaWall. 

Any chance you could make a quick sketch of what you would do, with component values for future reference? I’d really appreciate it!
You’ve been a huge help, I really appreciate you giving me some of your time tonight,  Really, I do!

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4 minutes ago, VDS said:

Any chance you could make a quick sketch of what you would do, with component values for future reference? I’d really appreciate it!
You’ve been a huge help, I really appreciate you giving me some of your time tonight,  Really, I do!

Lower from 600 to 500?  I was looking at Al’s 500hz XO, dcm 50 seems fine to 500 for sure, maybe 400.

i never really listen above 90db

thanks again! I never expected personal service. I am always amazed at the knowledge of people on this forum!

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If you want to learn:

https://www.parts-express.com/loudspeaker-design-cookbook-7th-edition-book--500-035

 

You also will need measurement and modelling software.  Xover Pro is easy.  https://www.parts-express.com/x-over-3-pro-software-cd-rom--500-919

This replaced WooferTester at PE,  though WT is still available. 

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-dats-v3-computer-based-speaker-audio-component-test-system--390-807

 

REW is often recommended for response measurement. 

 

 

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6 hours ago, JohnA said:

If you want to learn:

https://www.parts-express.com/loudspeaker-design-cookbook-7th-edition-book--500-035

 

You also will need measurement and modelling software.  Xover Pro is easy.  https://www.parts-express.com/x-over-3-pro-software-cd-rom--500-919

This replaced WooferTester at PE,  though WT is still available. 

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-dats-v3-computer-based-speaker-audio-component-test-system--390-807

 

REW is often recommended for response measurement. 

 

 

Yes I’ve read about REW. Thinking about the Umik fro Parts Express, thanks I’ll look at X over pro.  I’m finally coming around to how important XO’s are to overall sound, 

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