Jump to content
The Klipsch Audio Community
salbake

New Gear vs Vintage Gear

Recommended Posts

OK; seems this discussion is "going the wrong way." :)  Question was "vintage" vs "modern."

 

Have and "have had" many vintage (decent quality) amps/receivers and have always been very pleased with them compared to much more expensive modern systems. Think the original posting is a bit skewed ... i.e. older $1000 system vs $5000 new system.  Certainly hope it is "a bit" better. :D  

 

Cheers, Emile

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, fmalloy said:

If anything, Mr. Medwin, your posts are surely entertaining!

 

I also enjoyed your similar "I've been an audiophile since Mom nursed me" thread from 2017:

 

https://hifihaven.org/index.php?threads/discussion-can-there-be-one-true-best-amp.2877/

 

The "there is only one best 2A3 amp in this world" is a bit over the top, to say the least.

 

All jokes aside, considering what you wrote - I'd sure love to hear a Dennis Fraker amp! 😃

 

 

 

 

[Sick of the ads for Fraker, tell him to pay his internet bill, and when/if he does that, please don't link to it]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How much of the vintage stuff have remote controls? 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Ceptorman said:

How much of the vintage stuff have remote controls? 

 

 

Doesn't matter as much if the source has a remote :)  

Or a well trained dog.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some old stuff is really good!

Here's a little comparison of new with old:  

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, muel said:

Doesn't matter as much if the source has a remote :)  

Or a well trained dog.  

If I'm too lazy to have my wife turn up the volume, then I don't need a remote!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

Your hero, Nelson Pass, fully knows that no matter what he designs, triodes sound better than any solid state device he can find. 

 

He has expressed this privately, to someone I know, in their phone conversation.

 

People often go, where their bread is buttered.

 

 

That's what we refer to as irrelevant Jeffrey. What's that got to do with anything? This is a Moderator's rhetorical question, it doesn't need to be answered. Just doing this to help you along and see this thing in context, as readers and members of this Forum would be reading and evaluating your posts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, henry4841 said:

I consider Nelson to be the premier amplifier designer for the last few decades if you mean hero. I have never heard of your hero's until you joined the forum. There are other designers I follow as well as him. He has stated many times his thing is SS but he does have tube amplifiers in his home he designed. Many consider his SIT-1 and SIT-2 as good as a SE 300b amplifier. I have not purchased one because I have a SE 300b amplifier and like tube gear but do play a lot with SS amplifiers. The market is SS these days so I blame no one for being successful for the market. You are confrontational with most on this forum who do not follow your advice of which I have no desire to do. I prefer SE tube amplifiers but not everyone has horn speakers and need more power for their speakers. That is the big reason the market is now SS and that and the younger audiophiles think transistors are better than tube being that they are a newer device. All this being said I do not think there will ever be a market of what you believe and design.  Complicated designs with multiple components when fewer is better in my world. Some may like you philosophy and decide to build one of your circuits but it will not be me. When it comes to tube or SS amplifiers I am of the school of less components is better. More components do not add anything to the sound but may do the opposite.   

@henry4841 thank you for a reasoned, polite, response despite an obvious "hero" jab you received. We need more like you on this Forum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

 

For the record Henry, regarding simplicity, how many of your DIY two-stage 45 amp builds were directly coupled ?  You never mentioned that.   If you tell us "none", please don't ever post up here in the future about my builds being complex, especially when you do not understand what and why, I do what I do !!    Thank you very much.

 

Jeff Medwin

I am sorry for giving my opinion on your forum Medwin. I will refrain from doing so anymore because I do not like the way you treat people who disagree with you. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

IMHO, and YMMV, this is by far the most arrogant and condescending post I have ever seen on this Forums. Normally I would just send you PM, but you have too long a history on this Forum and should know better. Additionally, we simply can't risk members and the public thinking that his sort of response is acceptable or condoned around here.

 

First, do you know how you sound? Seriously, do you know how you sound in your posts? Experts in effective communications recommend reading a communication out loud in order to get a more objective idea of how they are coming across. I suggest you do that, quickly, and get back to me quickly on how you this post sounds to you when you read it out loud. Maybe forward your post to Dennis Fraker and get his objective opinion on how you sound.

 

12 hours ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

As a preface, I want to point out that I can tell from the way you write, and what you say, that I am much older than you.   I will soon be 76.   Being older than you, I most likely have more direct audio experience than you have.  What follows is my own story, and then, some points to make  :

 

You suggest that you have more "direct audio experience" than Henry. What is "direct audio" experience? I suspect there are some teenagers who have listened to more audio than you have because they can now take it with them everywhere. What does direct audio experience have to do with an opinion on vintage vs. new audio gear? What does direct audio experience have to do with you ability to judge equipment for anyone else but you? Does going to a lot of movies make me an expert on directing? Acting? You have listened to a lot of stuff? Your time would be much better served by starting a Youtube channel and you doing reviews on different pieces of equipment and helping people with purchasing advice. Or consulting with audio companies on how they can make equipment up to your standards so you can improve what they are putting out, and in some cases save them.

 

As I have mentioned to you in the past in personal messages, WE DON'T NEED SAVING ON THIS FORUM. Keep this in mind, I think it is going to be a common theme.

 

12 hours ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

My experience started when I was brought home from the Hospital, late in 1944.  Mom nursed me with the original  ALTEC 604 playing classical music from NY City or Philly, in the background.  Seven decades ago, as a child,  my Dad would take me by the hand, board the train for New York with me, and he would attend Hi Fidelity shows that were put on in New York City Hotels.  ( I bet my Mom let him attend, ONLY if he took Jeffrey off of her hands for the day !! )  When the 604B came out, Dad bought one, and our Medwin family had stereo !!

 

 

Did they skip over teaching you manners and common decency? The Golden Rule? 

 

 

12 hours ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

POINT ONE :

 

Just because you do not know of my two audio Mentors, does not diminish them in any way.  In the history of audio, both Robert Fulton of Fulton Musical Industries, and Dennis Fraker of Serious Stereo, have been given " State of the Art " reviews, and considered top in their game.   

 

That is more than we can say about you and I, and our personal audio accomplishments, right Henry ??!!  

 

As I have pointed out to you before, Fulton was also considered by many to be a nut. He changed his designs so often one magazine that had loved his stuff said they could no longer recommend it because he was constantly changing it. 

 

Dennis Fraker's website is defunct, the only mention of him are internet based audio reviewers who went to RMAF shows, posts by you in about 5 different audio forums, and a couple of other posters in sort of DIY forums. Not sure who considered them top in their game, not really much out there. [Note, spare me the links to the RMAF reviews on Fraker, I will just delete them].

 

12 hours ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

POINT TWO

 

300B amplifiers.  You talk about them as though they are the pinnacle in tube audio. This only shows your inexperience to me, lack of knowledge, and...... I sorta chuckle. 

 

300B amps are NOT the pinnacle, and they are only popular because the mass public simply doesn't get it right with speakers.  The mass public ( you ) does not KNOW that a high-quality high-efficiency speaker is needed, if you want the best sound, coming from the best possible amp. 

 

So all of the people on this Forum who LOVE 300B amps with their Klipsch speakers are just inexperienced and give you a chuckle. Do you know where you are Jeffrey. Seriously, do you know where you are. This is the Klipsch Forum, they all know about high-quality  speaker is needed. It's needed to have the best sound (based on PWK's inverse distortion rule) not to get the best sound from the amp, but this would be an indirect benefit, kinda, sort of. It's distortion related according to the objective testing of psycho-acoustic researchers. Henry owns high-quality, high sensitivity speakers (you are using "efficiency" in the wrong sense, there is a difference between "sensitivity" and "efficiency" even though they are interrelated). He owns Klipsch, La Scala's I believe. On a Klipsch Forum that instantly makes him 100X smarter than you Jeffrey. Situational awareness Jeffrey. 

 

WE DON'T NEED SAVING

13 hours ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

The best path in ultra-audio, is to START with a speaker that will play well on about 3 Watts or less .    Coincidentally, one would avoid a 5 Watt 300B amp.   The 300B amplifier is only used by those, who don't know enough to get it right first, with speakers. 

See response above. Perhaps you thought you were in Hi-Fi Haven or somewhere else. You are preaching to the choir. He owns Klipsch. He is climbing, he is now, IMHO, YMMV, 200X smarter than you when it comes to audio despite his obvious lack of "direct audio experience."

 

[Henry made a post just now as I was typing, going to take a brake to read it]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, henry4841 said:

I am sorry for giving my opinion on your forum Medwin. I will refrain from doing so anymore because I do not like the way you treat people who disagree with you. 

It's not his Forum, and I am addressing it. I suspect you will be around here a lot longer @henry4841 than him. Do NOT leave.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Emile said:

OK; seems this discussion is "going the wrong way." :)  Question was "vintage" vs "modern."

 

Have and "have had" many vintage (decent quality) amps/receivers and have always been very pleased with them compared to much more expensive modern systems. Think the original posting is a bit skewed ... i.e. older $1000 system vs $5000 new system.  Certainly hope it is "a bit" better. :D  

 

Cheers, Emile

He is talking about you @Jeffrey D. Medwin I am almost positive. You, Jeffrey, are going the wrong way.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, muel said:

Some old stuff is really good!

Here's a little comparison of new with old:  

 

 

 

Gallo speakers?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

POINT THREE :

 

You dislike " Complicated designs with multiple components when fewer is better in my world. 

 

You are a huge hypocrite, and are not experienced enough to in audio to even KNOW what you are talking about.  I private mailed you last week, and you showed me a Type 45 amp schematic, you were waxing so wonderously over, while listening to it.  What kind of person are you -  to be telling me about simple circuits ??  Mis-informed  !!!! 

Did you really say this @Jeffrey D. Medwin ? Is there something going on I'm not aware of? Did he point out some solider joint problem, a difference of opinion in some other thread?

 

A PM about a Type 45 Amp, and you are bringing that up Jeffrey. 

 

It appears you have "lost it." That is a personal attack, and a clear violation of the terms of service. I'm going to run this by the other moderators tomorrow, but based on your history in this Forum, I think you need a long vacation, or a permanent one. Maybe you can come up with something in here between now and then to change that, I like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, keep an open mind, etc. 

 

Jeffrey it appears we are just not smart enough to gain the benefit of your knowledge. It is simply being wasted on us here. Us neophytes just simply cannot appreciate your greatness. Alas, it appears that we may just have to suffer along without you.

 

Perhaps you and Mr. Fraker can start a website/forum (Fraker's is broken, for two months) and you can anoint those worthy enough to enter. (I would pay a lot to have the exclusive Kool-Aid franchise there, just sayin').

 

Jeffrey, this is typically the point where you completely skip over what I'm suggesting to you and you seem to always choose to defend your statements, than you try to play the the victim and blame this all on me or another moderator, or walk back your comments and say something like "no offense intended" or you simply want to have the last word. This would not be a good place to deploy any of those tactics. Read that last sentence again, slowly. 

 

Reminder: We don't need saving from you on this Forum. 

 

Travis - Forum Moderator on call when the multiple complaints came in about your long post (None of the complaint's were from Henry, a class guy, good parents, and I estimate, if he has La Scala speakers, is 1000X smarter than the person he was having to deal with. @henry4841 you isn't gonna have to deal with this no more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

They will criticize my use of sub critical chokes, paralleled resistors, double shunting, double Dennis Fraker Final Filters, and multiple cap bundles.  Yet, these individuals have ZERO experience typically, of ever hearing, or building -  ANY of this.  WHY do I add these things?  Because they improve the music's listening experience, and I know HOW and WHY to do that !!! .   In a way Henry, sometimes I very briefly feel sorry for you guys, driving Chevy NOVAS, thirty years old, and never enjoying the performance of a new mid-engine Corvette. 

 

Our savior, but WE DON"T NEED SAVING on this Forum.

 

Try working on filters more, not Fraker's, but the one between your brain and your fingers as you type messages and posts in this Forum. I predict such a filter doesn't exist when you type on this Forum, and such a filter is going to be a very critical piece of equipment for you to continue your "experience" here.

 

Travis = Moderator with short straw

 

P.S. I'm using "filter" in the figurative sense, not literal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

When someone like you, or knowledgeable Maynard, critique my amps as being " to complicated" it tells me, they do NOT know what is important, and sadly lack the direct personal experience, in ultra high audio performance. 

 

Looks like a bleed over from the Talkin Tubes section, all started by Jeffrey in this thread. Jeffrey are you upset that Medwin pointed out, nicely, polite, a heads up that your design wasn't going to fit in the chassis you had selected and you had to switch to a two-chassis design?

 

@Jeffrey D. Medwin you should know that Maynard has saved you on a few occassions, advocating that when you stay on point and talk about your build, there is a lot of knowledge going back and forth manner that is to the benefit of everyone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

I don't care much - what others do.

Or what their opinion may be, or what others may learn from a different opinion, or how others feel, you don't seem to care much all three counts

.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

For the record Henry, regarding simplicity, how many of your DIY two-stage 45 amp builds were directly coupled ?  You never mentioned that.   If you tell us "none", please don't ever post up here in the future about my builds being complex, especially when you do not understand what and why, I do what I do !!    Thank you very much.

 

'

Did you really say that @Jeffrey D. Medwin As long as he is respectful, which everything I have ever seen him post anywhere has been respectful, he can post anywhere he wants.

 

Please don't ever post up here in the future about my builds. 

 

IME, IMHO, YMMV, they are complicated and convoluted. So much so that Maynard saw a train wreak coming and suggested laying out parts on poster board, bright idea. Ignored, now two chassis boxes where there was just one.

 

I would look this one up: Pride goeth before destruction. (16:18).

 

Travis: Moderator signing off

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/22/2020 at 4:42 PM, salbake said:

Should say MY new gear vs vintage gear. Out of curiosity played an album on my current stereo and same album on previous stereo from 1980. I’m relieved that I didn’t waste money. Was surprised at how much better the new stuff sounded. Night and day difference. Just had the Yamaha CR-1020 professionally cleaned/Re-capped/ brought into spec too.  

Digging the LP

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Travis,  

 

Good morning .  FYI, sometime between 1984 and 1988, I personally owned and used a pair of LaScalas,  for maybe about 5 to 10 months.  It was the last consumer - intended speaker I ever owned. 

 

From that key turning point on, till today, I use Movie Theatre speakers. 

 

The LaScalas were replaced by a two-way RCA system, "Ubangie" double 15 inch, front firing horn bass bins, a MI-9595 high frequency horn, and the audiophile ( famous ultra-high-end ) MI-1428 RCA field coil high frequency compression drivers.  That, I enjoyed. 

 

I intended to never ever divulge this information here, but you are up too late, certainly on a binge,  and you are " dogging me royally " about not owning La Scalas.   

 

Jeff Medwin   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...