Jump to content
The Klipsch Audio Community
Jon B

KP-301 new owner, but I need some advice

Recommended Posts

While serving in the USAF and in Germany in the mid 80's, I was a part-time speaker rep for Cerwin Vega, Bose, Infinity, and Klipsch, as well as DBX effects. It was at that time I fell deeply in love with Cornwall's, but on an enlisted man's pay could never afford them. Now that I'm older, and in a better financial position, I can afford some of the "better things in life." So I am actively working to scratch that itch that dates back to 1983 when I heard the Cornwall for the first time.

 

This past week I bought a pair of KP-301's and traded a pair of refurbished Cerwin Vega AT-12's (my garage speakers) for a rough pair of AT-15's at a local pawn shop. I plan replace the surrounds on the AT-15 woofers, work a little on the cabinets, then liquidate them to support my Klipsch endeavors.

 

Anyway, I knew the AT's needed work, but the 301's were sold as fully working for $500 - which I was happy to pay for them! When I got them home and connected to my Yamaha C-60/M/60 I could immediately hear issues with the speakers. Since I have a relationship with this pawn shop (I repair computers, game consoles and other gear for them on the side) I did not look them over closely in the store. One speaker has the dust cap missing on the woofer and it looks like the cone had started to separate from the coil, and someone had repaired it without replacing the cap. It seems to work fine, the coil is still aligned properly so I am not concerned. But I did notice that the tweeter in this speaker was barely audible and the mid seemed to be a little loud. Naturally I "assumed" the entire speaker had been abused, so I ordered a pair of titanium domes for the tweeters, reported the issues to the pawn shop and they gave me back $100 on the purchase (fine by me) and I waited for the domes to arrive. 

 

I installed both domes last night and was shocked to hear there was no change in the tweeter with the low gain. So I pulled the mids to verify their wiring and get a better look at the crossover. I could immediately see there was a different Klipsch crossover installed in each speaker. The good news was, both are Klipsch crossovers because I could easily see the logo, but I could not tell the exact models from that angle. This weekend I plan to pull the woofers and solidly identify each crossover.

 

My question would be, how should I proceed? The drivers seem to be in good working order. One crossover supports the separate high and low frequency inputs on the back of the speaker, and the other is a full range connection. The speakers actually sound good, but are unbalanced. Should I buy a pair of Crites 301 crossovers, install them, and just enjoy my new garage speakers, or find a match for the lone functional crossover.

 

BTW, I now have two stock tweeter domes and soon a spare crossover (or two) that I will be happy to barter to help others.

 

Thanks in advance, and it is great to be a new member here! HiFi was my first serious hobby going back to the 70's as teen and my first Pioneer SX-650 receiver with Advent 2 way speakers!

 

Jon

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Jon B said:

 Now that I'm older, and in a better financial position, I can afford some of the "better things in life." So I am actively working to scratch that itch that dates back to 1983 when I heard the Cornwall for the first time.

 

This past week I bought a pair of KP-301's

 

I repair computers, game consoles and other gear

 

I installed both domes last night and was shocked to hear there was no change in the tweeter with the low gain.

 

I could immediately see there was a different Klipsch crossover installed in each speaker. This weekend I plan to pull the woofers and solidly identify each crossover.

 

My question would be, how should I proceed? The drivers seem to be in good working order. One crossover supports the separate high and low frequency inputs on the back of the speaker, and the other is a full range connection. The speakers actually sound good, but are unbalanced. Should I buy a pair of Crites 301 crossovers, install them, and just enjoy my new garage speakers, or find a match for the lone functional crossover.

 

Jon

Congrats on the 301's and welcome to the forum! It sounds like you're capable of repairing the crossovers that you have and that would likely be the cheaper way to go. Crites makes great crossovers though can't go wrong that way either. Post pictures if you tear into these including part numbers on drivers and crossovers so we can get a better idea of what you're dealing with here, good luck!

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the reply.

 

I got tied down by another project and did not get to this over the weekend. I'll work on it tonight and provide details.

 

Jon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/28/2020 at 4:01 PM, Jon B said:

 

 

My question would be, how should I proceed? The drivers seem to be in good working order. One crossover supports the separate high and low frequency inputs on the back of the speaker, and the other is a full range connection.

it depends whether you have a KP 301 or a KP 301 II  , the KP 301 uses the  KP3.0B  ---------here is what they should look like ----the KP 301II uses the KP 3.6A  XO -

 

-first thing to do , is remove the  2 woofers - 2 mids--2 tweeters and verify  which crossovers you have inside the speakers , and verify if both mids drivers or horns are the same  and finally are  the tweeters identical  -

-there has been aftermarket and original diaphragms for both the mids and tweeters   in both phenolic and titanium  ---you would have to open each driver to see what is installed in the drivers -   are they original klipsch ------are they aftermarket , are they phenolic-are they titanium  -or are they all  a mix of various types -

 

https://community.klipsch.com/uploads/monthly_10_2013/post-26147-1381937453882.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

HI Gents,

 

Both Speakers are labeled on the back as KP-301. There is no indication I have version II speakers from the outside. 

Since I had one speaker malfunctioning that also had a repaired woofer I assumed I had a tweeter with a burnt voice coil, so I ordered replacement titanium domes and replaced BOTH. No change.

 

Tonight I removed ALL the drivers and took a look at the crossovers. The 100% speaker had a KP-3.6A crossover installed, and the speaker with the nearly silent tweeter had a KP-3.0B installed.

The fully working speaker had the following parts:

KP-3.6M Crossover with soldered driver wires - but some of the interconnect white wire with the red and black stripes used in this speaker that was all over the 3.0B. I think this has a "donor" crossover.

K-79K Tweeter

K-57K Mid

K-48EP Woofer (is this a 301, or 301II part?)

 

The partially working speaker had the following parts:

KP-3.0B Crossover

K-79K Tweeter

K-57K Mid

K-48K Woofer.

 

By the way, I did bridge the HF and LF connections on both speakers when testing them. One crossover had separate inputs, the other appeared to not need the bridge.

 

So where do I go from here? Should I try to find another 3.6 crossover, buy a new pair of crossovers from Crites, or do something else?

 

Thank you,

Jon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The KP-3.6M?(Perhaps KP-3.6A) is for either a KP-301 II or KP-362

The KP-3.0B is for a KP-301

The K-48-EP is out of a KP-362 most likely and will should be an equivalent replacement to the k-48-K.

The other drivers appear correct for the KP-301.

301 PDF https://community.klipsch.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=171485

 

You will need working KP-3.0B crossovers for  both KP-301 speakers.

Schematic from another thread: https://community.klipsch.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=37951

 

Test each driver with a meter to make sure they still show the correct ohms, and replace any diaphragm etc that test bad. 

Check the fuses on the back of your input panel to make sure none are blown.

 

Hope this helps. 

 

The KP 301 should have the following specs.

K-79-K
K-57-K w/K-601 horn 
K-48-E
Response  36 Hz 20kHz.
Crossover type KP3.0A
101 dB SPL with 2.83 v input measured in a 100 cubic meter room at 1 meter.
Max SPL 124 dB at max continuos power rating of 200 watts
82 lbs

 

The KP 301 II Should have the following

FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 45Hz - 20kHz±4dB (-10dB @ 39Hz) @ 3 meters, 1/2 space anechoic

SENSITIVITY: 102dB @ 2.83V, 1 meter, 1/2 space anechoic

POWER HANDLING: 400 watts (41.5V)

CALC MAX CONTINUOUS OUTPUT: 125dB

COVERAGE ANGLE: 60° Horizontal x 40° Vertical

DIRECTIVITY INDEX (DI): 9dB ±2dB

NOMINAL IMPEDANCE: 8 ohms, 4.3 ohms minimum @ 1401Hz

TRANSDUCERS: One K-792-KP compression driver, one KP-66-E titanium compression driver and one 15" K-48-KP woofer

CROSSOVER FREQUENCY: 650Hz and 7kHz

INPUT CONNECTIONS: Dual red/black five-way binding posts and dual locking Neutrik® Connectors (see pictures)

DIMENSIONS (H x W x D): 32.625" (82.9cm) x 20.825" (53cm) x 16.825" (42.9cm)

WEIGHT: 82 lbs. (37.2kg)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/1/2020 at 12:07 AM, Jon B said:

So where do I go from here?

Easy peasy.  Diagnosing a speaker problem is simple if you have one working speaker.  All you have to do is swap components until the problem goes to the other speaker.  You can check wiring with an ohm meter along the way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, CECAA850 said:

Easy peasy.  Diagnosing a speaker problem is simple if you have one working speaker.  All you have to do is swap components until the problem goes to the other speaker.  You can check wiring with an ohm meter along the way.

 

I honestly should have swapped the tweeters first, but I was in a hurry and only looked at the physical evidence - one speaker was clearly abused and in my experience tweeters are one of the first drivers to fail when a speaker is abused. I did not determine that there was a different crossover involved until AFTER I bought the titanium domes and replaced them on each tweeter. I'm happy with the new domes, and I have decided to shelf the 3.0 b and 3.6 a for a new pair of Crites Chorus I crossovers. This pair of 301's days of public sound reinforcement are behind it.

 

Thank you,

Jon

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Think it will not matter in the end result as to the woofers. Both are pro speakers to my understanding.

Eminence Pro or the K...

Think these would be awesome after speaking with Bob Crites about any compatibility concern

you may have about the Chorus 1 crossovers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, billybob said:

Think it will not matter in the end result as to the woofers. Both are pro speakers to my understanding.

Eminence Pro or the K...

Think these would be awesome after speaking with Bob Crites about any compatibility concern

you may have about the Chorus 1 crossovers.

The "K" woofer is a Klipsch badged Eminence driver from what I understand, same driver different label. 

 

The 301 has the same exact driver configuration in the same size cabinet (internal volume anyways) with the same size ports as the Chorus 1 so crossovers will work just fine and sound great with lower crossover points and less circuitry 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Gents, for the outstanding advice. When these speakers are ready, I have no doubt I will be in sonic nirvana.

 

I'm about to realize my Cornwall dream (and a bit more) after all these years of wishing and hoping I would one day own a pair.

 

I can't wait,

 

Thanks again,

Jon

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jjptkd said:

The "K" woofer is a Klipsch badged Eminence driver from what I understand, same driver different label. 

 

The 301 has the same exact driver configuration in the same size cabinet (internal volume anyways) with the same size ports as the Chorus 1 so crossovers will work just fine and sound great with lower crossover points and less circuitry 

That is my understanding as well from past conversations.

Know you had run into this reality before. Nice to have your thoughts 

on crossover as well. thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, billybob said:

Nice to have your thoughts 

on crossover as well. thanks

Thanks man! I really love the k-48 woofer / Chorus style loudspeakers currently have 3 variations up and running KP-301 II's, custom ki-362's and customized Chorus II's with parts / plans to assemble ki-396's and kpt-335's, all of which utilize the k-48.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, jjptkd said:

Thanks man! I really love the k-48 woofer / Chorus style loudspeakers currently have 3 variations up and running KP-301 II's, custom ki-362's and customized Chorus II's with parts / plans to assemble ki-396's and kpt-335's, all of which utilize the k-48.

Until I got my first Klipsch, which was a Chorus, and finally took out the K-48-E's, and felt their heft and build and replaced the caps, really had no Idea.

Good fortune on the builds!

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Time for an update.

 

I reached out to Bob Crites last week and did not hear from him. So I gave him a call today and we talked for a good 20 minutes about my speakers and he looked up the details on my speakers, the drivers installed, and the schematic for the crossovers employed.

 

He then said the following:

Check your midrange drivers and verify the dome material. If they are phenolic, then I should leave them alone and he will build me a pair of new 3.0B replacements. If the domes were titanium then the Chorus would be the appropriate replacement crossover due to the characteristics of the titanium dome in the mid. I then asked about the titanium tweeter domes that I had already replaced. He told me that was a great choice and they would be fine with either crossover. He said, "titanium is excellent and what you want for a tweeter, but it makes the mids sound pretty harsh without the proper adjustments in the crossover." 

 

Bob is a great guy, and we have quite a few things in common from our past. It really was a great conversation for me - he even sounds like my dad on the phone! I lost my dad 4 years ago and it was great to talk with someone that was quite a bit like him - another wise southern gentleman.

 

I also found out that Bob is recovering from some health issues, so let's all be thinking about him and wishing him good health to come. There are far too few good people like him, and so many more that are nothing like him. So we should truly appreciate him while we can, instead of waiting until we can only miss him.

Edited by Jon B
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The new Crites Chorus crossovers arrived today and I will be installing them tomorrow night!

 

I did some bartering tonight and got a pair of KP 320's for a Yamaha receiver that was only worth $150 to me! The 320's are pretty rough, but work just fine.

 

So I think the next few nights are going to be fun in my garage!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

********************** FOLLOW UP AND RESULTS ************************

The Crites crossovers arrived Monday, and I installed them Wednesday night. All I can say is wow. And that is a very emphatic WOW!

 

I thought these speakers sounded good in the compromised state they were in when I purchased them, but I had no idea just how good they could sound, even to my 59 years young ears. And to those folks that suggested I purchase Chorus 1 crossovers instead of the original 3.0b crossovers.......I owe you a huge debt of gratitude. I have no idea how they could possibly sound better.

 

With these speakers I am listening to music I have heard for decades and hearing it for what seems like the first time. The detail of the reproduction is absolutely astounding. And some of the songs I can't get out of my head because they are now so fresh and new to me. And if the music features horns, it is even better. For example the song "Your Latest Trick" by Dire Straits off their Brothers in Arms album which features a trumpet and saxophone is an epic listen. That entire album has always been one of my favorites to test speakers, well except for the lone pop tune on it "Money For Nothing" which is utterly forgettable, it is a fun listen with fine speakers or quality headphones. And of course any song by Chicago will shock you as well.

 

No my 301's are not the Cornwall's I have always desired, but they are now close enough for me! And in some ways a better fit for my current needs and setting than the Cornwall's would be anyway. But in any case there is no arguing the superior design and reproduction of a Klipsch speaker - none at all.

 

Thank you ladies and gentlemen for your input and suggestions on this project. It is an absolute success and I am a very happy camper!

Edited by Jon B
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Jon B said:

********************** FOLLOW UP AND RESULTS ************************

The Crites crossovers arrived Monday, and I installed them Wednesday night. All I can say is wow. And that is a very emphatic WOW!

 

I thought these speakers sounded good in the compromised state they were in when I purchased them, but I had no idea just how good they could sound, even to my 59 years young ears. And to those folks that suggested I purchase Chorus 1 crossovers instead of the original 3.0b crossovers.......I owe you a huge debt of gratitude. I have no idea how they could possibly sound better.

Nice! I put Chorus II crossovers in my 301-II's and had the same experience, it was like lifting a blanket off the speakers, glad you're up and running and enjoying your speakers!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/1/2020 at 1:07 AM, Jon B said:

KP-3.6M Crossover with soldered driver wires

can you send us a picture of this XO ----------I've never seen this XO ,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/10/2020 at 7:27 AM, RandyH000 said:

can you send us a picture of this XO ----------I've never seen this XO ,

 

This is a picture of the 3.6 with soldered driver wires. The inputs are spade clips, but the red, yellow, and green driver wires certainly are soldered into the board with their common connections.

 

3.6 Crossover.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...