DPHL Another Great Tweeter Option for the DIY'er

[jjptkd]

Inspired by @mustang_flht thread below figured I'd give this a shot, parts list:

 

https://www.parts-express.com/bc-de120-1-neodymium-mylar-compression-driver-8-ohm-2-3-bolt--294-5809#lblReviews

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Paudio-PHT-409-Horn-Tweeter-Supertweeter-Klipsch-replace-K-79-K-75-K-76-K-84/372632527011?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

 

Total after shipping and tax was just over $200 but these require a little bit of work with a Dremel tool hence the name "Dremeled Plastic Horn Lens." As detailed in the thread below the centerpiece needs to be removed and smoothed out and also the bolt pattern horn to driver are different, driver pattern is slightly larger. All in all it took me a little under an hour to complete the first set I'm sure the next could be done in half that time.

 

Thanks you so much Ange, this was a nice fairly easy project that made a big difference!

 

 

[mustang_flht]

Bravo 👍

 

And the sound is good ?

 

🙂

 

[CECAA850]

The 120 is no joke.

[jjptkd]

16 hours ago, mustang_flht said:

Bravo 👍

 

And the sound is good ?

 

🙂

 

Honestly have not had much time with them yet in this set up, they are more forward and detailed at lower volume Blues Clues and SpongeBob have never sounded so good! Hopefully before the long weekend is over I'll get a chance to play around with them at a decent volume with some good tunes.

[jjptkd]

Wow these things are great I thought the difference between the CT-120 and the k-77 was big but I think these made an even bigger difference in the 301's. 

 

The sound is so much fuller and detailed at all levels but especially lower volumes and somehow they never get overpowering even when cranked up they stay so smooth.

 

I like them so much I ordered two more set to make one for my custom Chorus II's and another for my friends Chorus 1's. 

[OO1]

let's not forget   the Celestion CDX1-1415  used used by klipsch on the AL5  and AK6 

[mustang_flht]

Hi @RandyH000

 

The tweeter that looks like the Klipsch tweeter AK6 AL5 at Celestion is rather the CDX07-1075 than the CDX1-1415 😉

 

After we do not know if it is the same diaphragm, it may be specific to Klipsch to have the right sound with Heritage. the Only the Chef knows 

 

For now and as long as it is manufactured DE120 is the right choice for DIY enthusiasts. For the Celestion, a handyman would have to try it out, make a 0.7 "to 1" connecting piece (take a good look at the image of the Klipsch AK6 / AL5 tweeters on the table, there is a piece made of white nylon) and tell us his feeling about the sound 😝

 

 

[Dave A]

1 hour ago, mustang_flht said:

After we do not know if it is the same diaphragm, it may be specific to Klipsch to have the right sound with Heritage. the Only the Chef knows 

This is for sure true with the 2" throat drivers but the new 2" phase plugs require a 3D printer to make since they are not moldable. This would rule out making them this way for small inexpensive drivers. I would not rule out Roy getting a ton of custom proprietary molded phase plugs made for these though.

[jjptkd]

14 hours ago, RandyH000 said:

r the Celestion CDX1-1415  used by klipsch on the AL5  and AK6  Khorns ---https://celestion.com/product/52/cdx11415/

Just looking at the specs I dont think it would be an improvement over the de-120 but I could be wrong, at minimum there would need to be crossover changes to reduce output from 109db and looking at the response chart on their website it is only flat in that it is a straight line down from about 2k to 18khz I'm assuming they fix that in the crossover? 

[OO1]

8 hours ago, mustang_flht said:

CDX07-1075

yeah -MY BAD - tx  , I was just too lazy looking up the correct part  tweeter part number  with the Polyimide diaphragm --

 

either way , you can't buy this tweeter anywhere , it's OEM only for Line Arrays Manufacturers , so  the CDX1-1415  or the CDX1-1430 are the consumer products one can buy -

 

 

 

 

[ClaudeJ1]

On 9/20/2020 at 1:16 PM, RandyH000 said:

yeah -MY BAD - tx  , I was just too lazy looking up the correct part  tweeter part number  with the Polyimide diaphragm --

 

either way , you can't buy this tweeter anywhere , it's OEM only for Line Arrays Manufacturers , so  the CDX1-1415  or the CDX1-1430 are the consumer products one can buy -

 

 

 

 

 

You guys need to quit screwing around with this "maybe shit will work" Bovine Sediment and just get DaveA's MAHLs, big or small with B&C drivers which are already PROVEN by me and a whole bunch of other Klipschters in Heritage speakers. Why mess with success?

[OO1]

.......

[jjptkd]

2 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

You guys need to quit screwing around with this "maybe shit will work" 

Already done 3 sets now they work just fine and very easy to do-- maintaining Klipsch Tractrix design and saving myself $100 each time Not everyone has deep pockets my friend I initially looked for his on eBay but there was no option with the de-120 which is the driver I want to stick with I made a set for a friend of mine who really pushed me to look into this some more he cannot afford any upgrade really so I'm just trading his stock tweeters with Crites titanium straight across for a set of these I put together hoping to get at least half my money back on eBay. 

[ClaudeJ1]

On 9/25/2020 at 7:11 PM, jjptkd said:

Already done 3 sets now they work just fine and very easy to do-- maintaining Klipsch Tractrix design and saving myself $100 each time Not everyone has deep pockets my friend I initially looked for his on eBay but there was no option with the de-120 which is the driver I want to stick with I made a set for a friend of mine who really pushed me to look into this some more he cannot afford any upgrade really so I'm just trading his stock tweeters with Crites titanium straight across for a set of these I put together hoping to get at least half my money back on eBay. 

If a lousy $100 devalued/inflated makes a difference in this hobby, which is for the love of music, then so be it. Go to an Axpona show or one like it and see what a lousy $10,000 up to a Million buys you in non-Klipsch speakers (some that are smaller than a frikkin' Heresy!). You'll be shocked and realize what a bargain Klipsch speakers have been on a price/performance ratio. Especially when you divide 30-40 years of someone's ownership in days instead of years. 

 

Relative to the cost of recorded music and ELECTRONICS, that $100 means nothing much to most people relative to the rest of the costs. Let's say you have 1,000 CD's or Vinyl records going back 40 years (typical), how much did you spend on THAT? I remember having to spend $20 for a CD in 1983, and $5 for an LP, so let's call it $10 per (CD's eventually got cheaper because they had room for 50% more music time from each recording artist. So let's call it an average $10 per "album" from each one to simplify the arithmetic. So y'all have spent over $10,000 on music over the years (not including sales tax), and probably equal to or may half that amount in Electronics!! So there's a total of 15 GRAND on being able to create sine wave modulations to suit you taste in music, but you make that lousy $100 a break point in being able to hear that 15 Grand's worth on used speakers with a significant sonic upgrade made with quality materials????

 

So let me get this straight, someone invests $1,000 a pair for used Klipsch (or way less when you find the right auction or garage sale), and $100 makes or breaks the deal in the days of $3,000 HEADPHONES???

 

Much like the "big con" from Apple when Steve Jobs said "10,000 songs in your pocket" when selling iPods, he cleverly left out the rest of the story when you figure those double compressed downloads from their servers cost yo $1.29 per SONG!! So now the average teenager (assuming all were purchased LEGALLY) was carrying over $13,000 worth of Apple Sales while Skateboarding in the neighborhood with those 10,000 songs in his/her pocket.

 

All I can say is I'm glad you found a solution for the total uber-cheapskates out there and I hope you got lucky with the match that has no DATA to back up the move, proving that you have the correct dispersion angles and magnitude responses before you make an investment. For the same reason that Speakerlab K's were a poor copy of the real thing, this cheap piece of plastic you are touting as a "solution" without data to back it up should work OK for people are not worried about getting the best QUALITY from Quality materials. The saving grace here is the fact that the B&C DE-120 driver is the dominant device force in the tweeter performance area, and the horn much less so (although I have measured a whole bunch of bad horns in the process of measuring to find really good ones). Also, I have to add that the Woofer driver performance is far more important (like 10 times more) that the tweeter, so it's much easier to get away with any kind of tweeter upgrades than woofer one. In the band of sound, you do get what you pay for, all the way!! So I guess the best thing to do with that $100 saved is to put it into the woofer instead.

 

 

 

 

[jjptkd]

9 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

If a lousy $100 devalued/inflated makes a difference in this hobby, which is for the love of music, then so be it. 

 

So let me get this straight, someone invests $1,000 a pair for used Klipsch (or way less when you find the right auction or garage sale), and $100 makes or breaks the deal 

 

All I can say is I'm glad you found a solution for the total uber-cheapskates out there 

Wow seems I may have struck a nerve with this one! It's not just the 100 bucks for me most of my modifications i try and stick with Klipsch parts or good copies of original Klipsch parts. These Tractrix tweeter horns are identical to current Klipsch offerings so there is that.

 

I did move away from the stock driver in this tweeter just because they are so bad in my opinion even the newer titanium drivers are no where as good as these.

 

I applaud your efforts and appreciate the data you provide this forum also Dave's work on the MAHL is second to none I'm sure and if I was just looking for a drop in replacement that's probably the route I would go.

 

I'm a tinkerer so drop in replacement stuff kind of takes some of the fun out if it I enjoy making things work and experimenting, I dont take measurements except with my ears I know what sounds good to me and at the end of the day that's all I care about and I doubt seriously though that these would "measure bad."

 

 

[mustang_flht]

I believe you are both right, actually. Cool 👍

[ClaudeJ1]

30 minutes ago, jjptkd said:

Wow seems I may have struck a nerve with this one! It's not just the 100 bucks for me most of my modifications i try and stick with Klipsch parts or good copies of original Klipsch parts. These Tractrix tweeter horns are identical to current Klipsch offerings so there is that.

 

I did move away from the stock driver in this tweeter just because they are so bad in my opinion even the newer titanium drivers are no where as good as these.

 

I applaud your efforts and appreciate the data you provide this forum also Dave's work on the MAHL is second to none I'm sure and if I was just looking for a drop in replacement that's probably the route I would go.

 

I'm a tinkerer so drop in replacement stuff kind of takes some of the fun out if it I enjoy making things work and experimenting, I dont take measurements except with my ears I know what sounds good to me and at the end of the day that's all I care about and I doubt seriously though that these would "measure bad."

 

 

In the spirit of getting the "best bang for the buck," with minimum hassle, I have no problem with what you have done here, which is helpful. Good work.

 

I just wanted further expand the money's worth aspect by comparing with the real costs of this Hi Fi hobby and how insignificant the saving of only $100 in the "big picture."

 

Nothing personal here, just the facts. I'm glad you took it the way it was meant, as have others here. Cheers................................enjoy the music.

 

PS: Being a Hi Fi "cheapskate" myself, I wasn't trying to insult anyone in the process, but, hopefully, to qualify my comments as such by further expanding the relative price consideratons in the process. Peace, Love, Beatles!

[OO1]

On 9/27/2020 at 11:34 AM, jjptkd said:

  newer titanium drivers

 klipsch still uses the K-107TI  in the CW4 -H4  ,  but they mention that the phase plug on the CW4 - H4 is new ,   so if I understand it correctly , the CW3- H3 K-107TI does not have the same phase plug  -

 

-https://f072605def1c9a5ef179-a0bc3fbf1884fc0965506ae2b946e1cd.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/product-specsheets/Heresy-IV-Spec-Sheet-v03.pdf

 

"  The K-107-TI titanium diaphragm high frequency driver features an all new wide dispersion phase plug, providing exceptionally even high frequency dispersion throughout the listening area, making for a wider, more accurate sweet spot " 

[OO1]

.......

[ClaudeJ1]

16 minutes ago, RandyH000 said:

 klipsch still uses the K-107TI  in the CW4 -H4  ,  but they mention that the phase plug on the CW4 - H4 is new ,   so if I understand it correctly , the CW3- H3 K-107TI does not have the same phase plug  -

 

-https://f072605def1c9a5ef179-a0bc3fbf1884fc0965506ae2b946e1cd.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/product-specsheets/Heresy-IV-Spec-Sheet-v03.pdf

 

"  The K-107-TI titanium diaphragm high frequency driver features an all new wide dispersion phase plug, providing exceptionally even high frequency dispersion throughout the listening area, making for a wider, more accurate sweet spot " 

Roy's work on Phase Plug design is as significant as the horns themselves. The phase plug is a HUGE determinant of sound for a given diaphragm, voice coil, magnetic circuit, etc. in driver design, which is the primary part of horn assembly. Having mostly designed bass horns and woofer boxes myself, as a hobbyist, I can attest to the difficulties in the "systems" approach to driver/horn designs as frequencies go up the scale. This is a testimonial to the work involved by the Compression Driver makers of today. Like the Beatles famous lyrics: "It's getting better all the time." I have to also note that it took about 1/2 of a century to get these improvements, which is a testimonial to the people involved in the first half of the last century!