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TT Pain


MC39693

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I went through the same route as you are going 10 years ago.

Did not have much money and new TTs were rare in the shops. The few available ones were expensive.

 

Found a Philips GA212 electronic in a local ad. Went to the local audio shop with it, there were guys who are also techs for such old things.

They cleaned it, changed the belt (for ProJect one, that is also stronger than original Philips), changed the ON/OFF switch, for which these TTS are notorious to fail.

 

Bought Ortophone 2M Red cart, installed it myself for the first time in my life. Read a lot about cartridge alignment, watched a few on-line videos, and with a lot of patience this TT is playing very well.

And of course, only after I got a decent Phono preamp. Without it it was just something missing. With these old TTs (mine is now 47 yers old), you never know what can fail. But in every model there are some usual suspects. If you are not accepting that fact, better buy a new turntable.

 

Later, when I realized that vinyl will not just be one season fun, I got myself a good simple mechanical TT. No electronics except for the motor. Of course this one was new and should last me a long time.

 

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I had a project debut carbon that was $400. I regret selling it. Gets great reviews, dead simple, and felt surprisingly nice.

 

I went to a TD160 which I love, but man have I spent so many hours tweaking that thing. You can find better value in vintage gear, but if you have one thing go wrong that needs repairs you are likely to spend a lot more than you expected and feel frustrated. Plus, a 100% functional 'budget' table is probably better than a 90% functional vintage table. More or less.

 

They also make an esprit model with a speed selector and acrylic platter that are nice upgrades. That's a pretty decent setup. Add a 2M blue stylus if you're feeling crazy.

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13 hours ago, parlophone1 said:

Found a Philips GA212 electronic in a local ad.

 

I had one of those in he '70s, got it new. It was a real sleeper, that worked above what it cost. I liked the touch sensitive switches. It died shortly after moving to Chattanooga in the Summer of '88. Like a dweeb, I threw it out instead of having it fixed. I got an inexpensive Technics that I still have, but it needs repair. I have a fully functioning SL1200MkII with an Ortofon Red on it that I use, but not very often.

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Just listened to a not perfect but good lp on my still new to me Sansui linear TT. Pretty nice have to say. No skip through several lps so far. They can be had for pocket change and are the easiest out of the several tonearms I have owned. Just flip and hit play.

 

Yes, there are some bargains out there online @iaRIVR . Project and others like Fluance.

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9 minutes ago, RandyH000 said:

do you still have the SL 1400-

 

No, I gave it to a friend when I got the M5G.  It was good, but the new one is so much better.  Hmm, I’ve had the “new one” for ten years already.  The SL-1400 Mk 2 cost me only $160 when I bought it, complete with a new Audio Technica cartridge.  That was in 2005.

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19 hours ago, RandyH000 said:

too bad  , it would have been cool to see a shootout -

 

As I mentioned in the post on Tuesday, the SL-1210M5G had more clarity and more solid bass than the SL-1400 MK2.  That’s about all I could say in the way of a shootout.  It’s possible that the 1400 was no longer at its best, since it was 22 years old by then, but it had sounded okay, until I got the M5G and heard its clearly improved sound, even with the same cartridge, headshell, and platter mat.

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1 hour ago, Islander said:

I got the M5G and heard its clearly improved sound, even with the same cartridge, headshell, and platter mat.

Something was definitely wrong with the 1400----most likely  the wiring in the tonearm  was 1 issue , and 2) the cuing arm  problems , normally the 2 decks should be pretty close sound wise , but the M5G is over- built for the  longterm , like a tank-

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all Technics SL  MK1 or MK2  prior to the M5G  had  thin wiring in the tonearms that were loose  non shielded individual wires -

 

the M5G used Cardas OFC wiring , stranded -and shielded  for the 1st time -

 

 

s-l1600.jpg

 

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On 9/22/2020 at 9:48 AM, capo72 said:

I would look for something "higher end" used. I'm a big fan of VPI tables. There is a pretty robust used market and a lot of bang for the buck. YMMV, good luck!

Naturally I'd agree with this (see admittedly pricey equipment list) but would add Basis.  They have a very nice, pure, musical  sound, impeccable construction that lasts forever, etc.  Their tone arms are truly world class.  Robert Harley of The Absolute Sound is over the moon about the line.  Sadly, AJ Conti, the analog genius behind the line, wasn't even 60 when he passed away just a few years ago.

 - Larry

Edited by LarryC
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6 hours ago, RandyH000 said:

all Technics SL  MK1 or MK2  prior to the M5G  had  thin wiring in the tonearms that were loose  non shielded individual wires -

 

the M5G used Cardas OFC wiring , stranded -and shielded  for the 1st time -

 

 

s-l1600.jpg

 

 

I followed the link on this picture and ended up watching the video below... It made me realise that using high end gear, in this case 'enameled' wiring, may lead to problems for the uninitiated (here: you must remove the (invisible) enamel on the copper before soldering).

http://www.cardas.com/litz.php 

 

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10 hours ago, RandyH000 said:

all Technics SL  MK1 or MK2  prior to the M5G  had  thin wiring in the tonearms that were loose  non shielded individual wires -

 

the M5G used Cardas OFC wiring , stranded -and shielded  for the 1st time -

 

 

s-l1600.jpg

 

 

The Cardas tonearm wire was not used in the SL-1200 MK 5.  It was reserved for the SL-1210 M5G and SL-1200 GLD (the gold-plated model).

 

This is my only experience with hearing two very similar turntables, with one having upgraded tonearm wiring.  The improvement in sound was really obvious.  I had not been expecting much improvement from the new deck.  I just knew the old one had controls with sticky actions, the platter bearing had a faint “tick” noise when the platter was turning, and I thought the turntable might be near the end of the trouble-free part of its life.  I knew it had had a rough time before I bought it, because I had to re-align the tonearm when I got it home, since it had been knocked crooked at some point and even had scrape marks at one of the bends.

 

This was in the summer of 2010, and I knew that the Technics 1200/1210 turntables were going out of production soon, so I went for it.  I had to get one from a music store in Calgary, since all the M5Gs in British Columbia were gone.  All the low-priced ones went first, of course, so I paid top price and considered myself lucky to find one at all.

 

As well, although the differences between the 1978 turntable (other than model differences) and the 2010 model seemed small, I reasoned that the Technics engineers had not gone out for a coffee for twenty years, so there had to be refinements that might be small and barely worth mentioning, but that added up to definite improvements in the sound and reliability.

 

All that said, I had expectations of a slight improvement in the sound, and was very pleasantly surprised at what I heard soon after lowering the needle.  Also, after buying so much of my gear used, it was great to lift something out of its nice new box, knowing that everything is straight and undamaged, even the parts I can’t see.  It’s not so much of a deal with speakers, which can be ugly but sound fine; with a mechanical device like a turntable, a scrape on something like the tonearm is more than cosmetic damage.

 

All told, it was a great day when I connected everything and heard the fine new sound from my fine new turntable.  Ten years later, it still looks and sounds excellent.

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3 hours ago, Islander said:

 Also, after buying so much of my gear used, it was great to lift something out of its nice new box, knowing that everything is straight and undamaged, even the parts I can’t see.

 

That's the truth... My SL-1200MkII was part of a pair I got at a pawn shop, including a cheap dj mixer and coffin box to carry it all. I took a gamble, and paid $350 for the lot. The cartridges had no styli and they weren't very clean. They both ran and were physically quiet. I sold one to a friend for $300, the mixer for $50, leaving me with a free TT. It cleaned up well and I got a head shell and an Ortofon Red for it. I need to do a better alignment, but for the little I play vinyl, it worked out well for me. It could have easily gone the other way.

 

BUT, the smell of new, out of the box. Very hard to beat.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Small update.  One of my "problems" was that I only have a phono input on my HT AVR Denon x4300h.  Which I don't really want to use for 2 channel.  Besides, I'd like to setup the TT in a reading room we have.  I currently have all digital in that room, with CD/DAC/power amp setup.  The power amp (Parasound A23) has no volume control so I put everything through the Cambridge audio DACMagic Plus and use it as the "preamp".  It does quiet well in this role with digital sources.

 

So, I went out and bought an AKAI AM-2800 local seller was very good.  He said he had lights on the VU meter changed to LED.  Looks to me like someone may also have updated the power caps, and the inside was very clean.  This amp has 2 phono inputs and adjustable impedance.  The VU meters are fun and confirm ... you really only need about 3 watts to put out lots of volume ... small room using Martin Logan LX16 speakers ... on the floor, etc.  Bad setup, but will get better.  My only "concern" is the spring clamp wire terminals are small.  I use 8 AWG cables (braided CAT6 I make).  So they barely fit.  There's someone in Germany who has replacement binding posts listed on Ebay.  It's a bit tight in the back, but perhaps I could swap for those binding posts?  The wood cabinet needs a bit of care, but is in pretty good shape.  The switches all work, no noise in use.  They feel great.  Solid, definite movement and definite function... don't spin that volume control!  And careful with the loudness toggle.  Mostly everything is in neutral, maybe some midrange emphasis?  Anyone have any input on this amp?

 

Now, I can continue the TT chase.  @Islander, and others, not many comments were returned for the Technics SL-1500 MKii..  The SL-1400 is gone.  Also, a Kenwood KD-650 with MC cartridge is available, a bit more $$$!  The SL-1500 is $500 and the Kenwood is $600 although both seem to be negotiable.  Anyone have any thoughts?

AKAI AM-2800 Front Panel - Low Res.jpg

AKAI AM-2800 Internals 1 - Low Res.jpg

AKAI AM-2800 Rear Panel - Low Res.jpg

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