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Music to bomb Bagdad by


Colin

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Yes, I'm a pacifist. No apologies. I have an aversion to dead people.

You think doing this is a good idea huh? Think making a Martyr out of Saddam will make terrorism go away? Doing this will increase acts of terrorism in this nation by a factor of a 100, and destablize the whole region.

We should have taken him out in 90, but we didn't -- why? Step back and look at the big picture.

The goal of radical Islam isn't any different than radical Christianity. All radicals want their ideals to be the concepts with which the world is run. Mainstream Islam OTOH, is the same as mainstream Christianity -- live in peace with your brother, and know that your kingdom is not of this world. Allah is certainly not Yahweh, and both religons can't be right -- but that doesn't mean we can't get along until history unfolds and reveals the truth.

Everyone prosletizes, even Atheists. Who cares? Everyone goes about the business of winning others to their belief system, and each has to make up their own mind. The bottom line however, is that no matter what system you are working under -- there are basic precepts we all agree on -- and we should live them out the best we can.

The politcal issues are complex, and isolating any one point into a corner doesn't get it done. I will say it's ludicrous to believe that Saddam will drop a nuke. He may be ruthless, but he's not an idiot. I don't think he has any interest in seeing Iraq turned into a sea of glass.

Maybe some of you would be willing to take some time and do some research on April Glaspie, and the meeting she had with Saddam before the Gulf war? Saddam told us he was going into Kuwait, and the official American response was, "We have no opinion on Arab to Arab conflicts". Two days later, Bush is on T.V. calling Saddam a "Hitler".

It's about oil. It's always been about oil, and will always BE about oil.

Again, William Baker's "Theft of a Nation", and President Carter's book -- "The Blood of Abraham" -- are both necessary reading material.

As far as Bin Laden goes, why does he insist on wearing that U.S. Field Jacket? Sometimes I think Americans are the most politically ignorant people on the planet. The Eastern mind works off SYMBOLS and IMAGERY. Their thoughts work off PICTURES. THINK about it.

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personaly, I think this is going to be vietnam all over again. lots of troops will be lost. If you are the type to think "but our military is so much bigger and stronger and more skilled!" think again. go back and look at the battles of Chechnya, when the russians really learned their lesson. I have seen video's of events that went down there, and it is by no means pretty: Russians getting their throats stabbed, being mass executed, everything you can think of. there is no reason to beleive this will be any different. Once we get over there, alot of families similar to daniel pearls will be receiving similar videos. In the worse case scenario, which I also feel could happen, Sadam would detonate the bomb somewhere in iraq, most likely on a US outpost, which will end in mass casualty.

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prodj101:

Actually, I think the war will only be a Vietnam is we WANT it to be. If we want to play a political war and send in troops to face a army, it will be bad times. If we "soften" up their army, we will be able to have it a lot easier. Hopefully, if (well, when) we go to war, we will try and make it as painless for us as we can.

BTW, I am nearing a draftable age, so I do have a real opinion 2.gif

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" I will say it's ludicrous to believe that Saddam will drop a nuke. He may be ruthless, but he's not an idiot. I don't think he has any interest in seeing Iraq turned into a sea of glass."

You still dont get it. All it takes is a group like Al Qaeda to get their hands on the essential materials to make a nuke. And remember advances in technology aid them too.

That's why you're not making the decisions. You have no resouces, information and vision. Instead of thinking about the worst happening you take solace in the warm feelings of the past. Another Vietnam, all about oil. You can't see the big picture because you want to take comfort in your short term complacent worlds.

It does take some diplomacy but the right things have to be done to keep the WDM from falling in to the wrong hands. Like I say you are the ones the ENEMY finds their solace in.

But no wonder the liberal minority has such a strong voice on this board and many other message boards. The smarter majority aren't wasting their life away posting crap on these boards. They're out working and voting. LOL

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why aren't you out working and voting than? you obviously have time to post here, and like you said, only stupid liberals who don't work waste time posting here. As for kenrat, good luck if you do get drafted. after seeing video of what they do to POW's, do not let them take you alive! trust me on this one.

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Good points punk kid. I post 3 times a month to your 1000 times. LOL And i'd rather be on the battlefield than take a round from a terrorist at the Mall of America.

You peacenick Kumbaya liberals have been around for every war. And the only one you were ever right on was Vietnam started by a Democrat president for pure politics. So I can see why you have such guilt for being a Liberal. LOL

But ask yourself before you make your naive assumptions. What if you're wrong? Don't worry though because America will succeed and prosper despite Liberals and the naive. I'll leave you with that.

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Forrest,

Just because I have a different opinion from you on how do deal with Iraq does not make me stupid, or a liberal. On the contrary, I am a republican and indeed not stupid at all. I simply have a different view from you is all. The biggest reason is this, we go to Iraq, we will not only kill military people, but innocent civilians which again, breeds more hate towards us. Again it's a huge mess. Is there really a "RIGHT" answer? Also, you have to realize one more issue, our government is telling us what they want us to hear. Just as Saddam can tell his lies, so can our government. I am not necessarily suggesting that our government is lying to us, just that they may be portraying the truth a little more dramatically than what could be the truth.

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----------------

On 11/27/2002 12:36:11 AM prodj101 wrote:

why aren't you out working and voting than? you obviously have time to post here, and like you said, only stupid liberals who don't work waste time posting here.

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And that makes you a what ?????

If we don't take Sadam and/or Osama out how will we defeat them? Ignor the problem and it goes away? Not this time. People like this are nothing more than heightened schollyard bullies that feed off of fear. This is how they perceive positive respect. So what are we going to do. "Nice" them to death? Maybe we'll just keep saying "Nee" to them as the Monty Python knights did.

I'm as tollerant as the next guy when it comes to co-existing with people of foreign ethnicities. It's the ones that don't try to learn the language most used in the country they reside in (the US), live here illeagaly to sponge off the US taxpayers or who flat tell me my way (obviously peacefull) way of living is wrong and I should die because I was not born into their religion, are the ones that rub me the wrong way.

With this viewpoint, it pretty well explains why I'm Ignostic. I do believe their is a supreme force. I just don't think it's what people think it is and I'm not gonna preach to the death to anyone something that I don't fully understand myself. But I'm more than willing to co-exist with those who's religion is more well defined.

This may sound wierd but Bruce Lee had a good philosophy with the martial art he adopted. Jeet Kune Do "way of the intercepting fist" or to counter immediatley with one fluid motion not two three (what our government is haggeling over). Or my favorite "The art fighting without fighting".

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Sorry Dean, but I'm with Forrest, KenRat and Flynn on this one.

You wrote: "The goal of radical Islam isn't any different than radical Christianity. All radicals want their ideals to be the concepts with which the world is run. Mainstream Islam OTOH, is the same as mainstream Christianity -- live in peace with your brother. Everyone prosletizes..,."

You're kidding, right?? Islam prosletizes at the barrel of a gun. Read the paper or better yet, read some history. It does repeat itself. Chamberlain had the same opinion about Hitler's Germany.

IMO, Carter's recent Nobel prize award is a f@#$%&^ joke. That panty-waste ex-pres has caused more problems than he's solved- the latest being the North Korea nuke issue. Carter needs to keep out of world politics and stick with Habitat for Humanity-- just penance for this flop of a presidency.

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It looks like a lot of people are already forgeting what happened on Sept 11, 2001. Remember Pearl Harbor?? Now THAT worked. No hesitation...JUST DO IT

Yes, no s-it, war is not nice..but unfortunately, when dealing with fanatic bananas, it is all they understand, and the only thing that will work. They HATE Americans and would just as soon send there own 5 year old into a group of them with TNT strapped to his back. I can only imagine how the folks feel that lost family and freinds in the bombings, wondering why the COUNTRY or COUNTRIES involved haven't been vaporized yet. And I bet they take GREAT offense to those that think we should be giving these FREAKS back rubs and begging them to not hurt us anymore. Guess we should just sit on our butts a bit longer.....maybe they will like us someday??

Get real.............

Mike

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I would not say I am a pacifist but I was close to it a 1.5 years ago. Now I am resoved to be an isolationist.

In traveling around the world as much as I do(Northwest Airlines Platinum 3 years running) you realize we as US citizens(UK, Canada and the rest of the west included to a lesser degree becuase your buildings were not blown up) try to hard to imprint our ideals of civilized society on what the thought processes of humans in other societies should think.

If radical Islamists speak about killing Americans; it is not a joke or hot air.

It is what they beleive.

It is a core value. Identical to key elements of our constitution and its ammendments.

I have not seen examples in History where people negotiate away their core values. For example; Taxation wothout Representation.

Decisive actions insuring the demise of totalitarian states and sheltered terrorist groups most likely is only way this deviant sector of islam will be convinced that Western Nation States will not be subject to the laws of allah or any other god.

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Well, I did differentiate between 'radical' and 'mainstream'. I know several Muslims, one who is my friend. I haven't seen the barrel of a gun yet.

Actually, President Carter's work at Camp David was pretty cool. The presidency as a whole had some problems, but the Peace Accord was awesome work on his part.

We are at war with an unseen enemy, not the Muslim community. What the hell is wrong with you people?

Where is the National Security Threat with Iraq? It sure ain't from a Scud Missile. If sneaking a small nuke into the country is a concern, maybe it's time we do more to secure our borders.

Anyone look up April Glaspie yet?

http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/glaspie.html

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Remind me to never ask you guys about politics; your logic shifts with the tides of your emotions. Just remember, no name calling. Name calling leads to shouting, which means I have to turn my music up louder, and that annoys the misses.

Did anybody see the HBO special last night, Uncle Saddam?

He comes across as a slick benevolent dictator. Yet, he is pillaging his country for his own posterity. Iraq is a backwards, under-developed country. While surrounded by the wealth of oil, it is reduced to poverty. As such, Saddam is just like other classic despots who looted their countries: Caligula, King Henry, Juan Domingo Perón, Ide Amin, Momar Kadafi, Ferdinand Marcos and Manuel Noriega.

Despite the geopolitical advantages of our colonial advance in the region, overthrowing him merely because of his despotism is no more our right than our ouster of Macros or our arrest of Noriega. Just because we can do it is not reason enough that we should do it. Simply because we covet a better military Middle east position, a safer oil supply or a nation modeled on our own great American social experiment is no reason to risk or waste the life of one American solider, or one innocent child. Bushs actions so far are classic colonial imperil-ism. It imperils our role and image in the Middle East. Not only as a benevolent super-power, but also as a just, dispassionate, non-religious primary consumer. Acting without provocation against a much smaller, much more defenseless nation threatens the US posture in the Middle East. It resembles the move of a white Christian colonial empire.

Clobber Al-Qaeda. Chase them to the ends of the earth and rain cruise missiles upon them. Fill Israel, Egypt, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait with as many US troops as they want. But avoid a unilateral action against Iraq without provocation. Saddams time will come. Sooner or later, all despots fail.

In the meantime, think of songs appropriate to the occasion. Deang, tblasing, fini talktokeith, audio flynn (Rock the Casbah, ooh, thats good!) and clipped and shorn, did. Thank you gentlemen, that was the spirit in which I made the request. Here are some more:

What does Saddam whistle when he is tucked away in a bunker: Underneath It All No Doubt

Bushs advice to Saddam: Lose Yourself, Eminem

How to explain four thousand years of parochial religious fighting in a destitute dessert region: Complicated, Avril Lavigne

What the war is all about: Freedom, Simply Red

Saddams favorite exercise request: Take me the River. A. Green/M. Hodges

What we told Iraq when we switched sides: No more I love yous, D. Freeman/J. Hughes

Advice to the poor people of Iraq: Dont let it bring you down (it is only castles burning), Neil Young

Song for US soldiers in Middle East to relax by: Beneath a Desert Moon, Sting

Song for pilots:

The President looks in the mirror and speaks

His shirts are clean but his country reeks

Unpaid bills

In Afghanistan hills

Bombs Away (Sting)

Theme song for CIA chasing Al Qaeda:

Every breath you take

Every move you make

Every bond you break

Every step you take-

I'll be watching you

Every Breath You Take (Police)

3.gif

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In the howling wind comes a stinging rain

See it driving nails

Into the souls on the tree of pain

From the firefly, a red orange glow

See the face of fear

Running scared in the valley below

Bullet the blue sky

Bullet the blue sky

Bullet the blue

Bullet the blue

In the locust wind comes a rattle and hum

Jacob wrestled the angel

And the angel was overcome

You plant a demon seed

You raise a flower of fire

See them burning crosses

See the flames higher and higher

Bullet the blue sky

Bullet the blue sky

Bullet the blue

Bullet the blue

This guy comes up to me

His face red like a rose on a thorn bush

Like all the colors of a royal flush

And he's peeling off those dollar bills

Slapping them down

One hundred, two hundred

And I can see those fighter planes

And I can see those fighter planes

Across the mud huts where the children sleep

Through the alleys of a quiet city street

You take the staircase to the first floor

Turn the key and slowly unlock the door

As a man breathes into a saxophone

And through the walls you hear the city groan

Outside is America

Outside is America

Across the field you see the sky ripped open

See the rain through a gaping wound

Pounding on the women and children

Who run

Into the arms

Of America

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ok hold up hold up hold up! First of all, how many countries doi you know of that have nuclear weapons? plenty! even we, the US has them, and alot of them. They estimate that world wide, there is enough nuclear fire power to creat the equivilant of having every man woman and child to have 5 tons of TNT. Iraq is not the only country to posses such powers. Maybe we should start sending troops to Russia and bomb them for having nuclear weapons? And besides, Iraq may be a horrible place to live, but that doesn't mean we have the right to be there. All osama wants is to have us withdrawl from the middle east, which I dont' think is a bad idea at all. We have no right to be their either.

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