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Klipsch Jubilee 535-B max power capacity


diamonddelts

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On ‎11‎/‎8‎/‎2020 at 1:39 PM, LTusler said:

The baseline settings are on page 2 of the spec sheets shown on page one if this thread.  I think I read somewhere that there is a passive xover between the mid and the high.  You will need 4 amp channels to drive the system through a DSP.

 

Thank you for your response.

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On ‎11‎/‎23‎/‎2020 at 6:52 AM, Chris A said:

I wish I could help, but you seem to not take suggestions that vary from your initial notions of what is wrong and how to fix it. 

 

I recommend taking a moment to think about some of these suggestions again. 

 

I'd recommend abandoning the extremely high power amplifiers.  You've bought loudspeakers that are way too efficient, such that you will never need that kind of input power--and this is the best decision that you've made, thus far IMHO.  Jubilees are the best sound quality loudspeakers that I've heard for home hi-fi sized listening environments.

 

Instead, I would again recommend a tri-amp setup with something like Hypex FusionAmps at each loudspeaker.  I recommend the lowest powered Hypex FA123 (125w/channel for each on-board amplifier) and not the highest powered FA503.  This is suggested for the sake of simplicity and compactness of the design, as well as the noted fidelity of the Hypex NCore amplifiers.  Not only will you be saving yourself a significant amount of money but you will also have a much lower noise system, and you will not be trading away anything in terms of acoustic output/sound quality (quite the contrary, in fact).

 

The only need you will have is the ability to take in-room REW measurements with a calibrated microphone (a $94 miniDSP UMIK-1 is more than sufficient).  Once this is done and you have learned how to take measurements, you can email those measurements to someone else that can help you dial in the DSP crossover portion of the amplifier assembly.  I think that you will be greatly impressed by the results that you hear.  After having gone through this initial dialing-in process, you can change any of the settings to your heart's desire and immediately compare those settings with the initial settings, etc.  So you have a very flexible system that will be able to change with your electronics fancies, including direct digital inputs to the amplifiers (choosing among AES3, S/PDIF electrical and optical), if you so choose which will eliminate all unnecessary digital-analog conversions in the signal chain, and give you one D-to-A conversion at the individual amplifiers, then immediately provide that power to each driver in your three-way loudspeakers, which itself is another efficiency boosting configuration (eliminating the added reactance and resistance of passive crossovers).  The benefits in terms of sound quality are very audible.

 

This is all "JMTC" from a 13-year Jubilee owner and engineer who learned a lot from the people on this forum, and also spent a significant amount of time in experimentation after understanding and taking the advice of those knowledgeable forum members that were willing to help here.

 

Chris

Thank you for your info. I printed this response and saved it.

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On ‎11‎/‎24‎/‎2020 at 10:53 AM, Islander said:

Searching for the ultimate speakers, and then grumbling because you don’t see an upgrade path seems like the route to frustration, no matter what you do.  It is possible to spend unlimited amounts of money on audio systems, but does a $200,000 system sound that much better than a $100,000 one?  I mean that no sound system will give a 100% experience of a live band in your room, no matter how much you spend.  At some point, you have to say “That’s good enough!”, and start just enjoying your music,

 

The outfit you have is great.  I wish I had the money and the room for it.  As it is, my speakers are 5’ 7” tall already.  It took a certain amount of dialling in, and there’s more to do, when I get the energy to do it, but for now, I’m really happy with how it sounds.

 

I hope you can get your system sorted.  When I first hooked up the bi-amped JubScalas with the Dx38, I went through a lot of frustration, trying to get rid of a hum and hearing barely whisper level music.  Some of the other forum members helped, especially mikebse2a3, but some of what he said was beyond my understanding.  

 

After two weeks of frustration, I called Pacific Audio Works, the local concert sound company.  The guy nearly dropped the phone when I told him I was struggling to integrate a Dx38 into a home system, but he agreed to send over a technician.  That guy struggled, too, and had to call back to the shop twice for advice, as well as swapping and resoldering one or two of the RCA-to-XLR adapter cables.

 

However, two hours later, he had it sorted.  I put in a concert DVD, No Doubt Rock Steady Live, and his jaw dropped.  He said, in an amazed voice, “You can hear everything!”  When a concert sound guy is amazed at a home system, it’s a good system.  The $120 or so that it cost me to bring him over was money well spent.  

 

Now volume of the music was normal, and the shop instructed him how to run a ground wire to get rid of the hum, because the various components were connected to two different circuits in my home.  It worked!

 

You might want to call a local pro sound shop, one that’s familiar with these big pro systems.  Maybe Cory at Paducah could recommend a shop near you that works with Klipsch systems.  They work with them every day, and generally know how to solve problems with them quickly.  It could save you a lot of frustration.

I've put off this idea for a long time. But you are right. I think it would be wise to have a pro sound specialist come by my house to do measurements, tweaking, and help me my establish benchmark data with my first electronic crossover when I purchase one.

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I finally have some very positive news to report in the meantime. I returned all class D amps last week. I went back to storage and pulled one of my crown pro amps and put them on the 535 Jubilees just for a change of sound. I was shocked and pleasantly surprised with what I heard. Strong highs, piercing mids, and robust bass. It sounded as if my speakers were brought back from the dead.

 

Due to the high S/N ratio of the pro amp, I could hear a touch of distortion at higher volumes but I could care less. The speakers sounded fabulous to my ears. I'm sure they will sound more refined once I learn more about electronic crossovers and experiment a little. But for now, I believe they sound great to my ears.

 

As much as I wanted to love Class D, I'm just not satisfied with the recessed mids and seemingly rolled off highs that I've heard with every class d amp that I've owned. I'm sure there are various input buffers which could color their sound to add warmth, but I strongly prefer Class AB at this point of my audio journey.

 

I'm also done with spending $3,000 plus on high dollar amps. None of the higher priced amps I've owned sound discernably better than my pro amps. If I could find some affordable class AB monoblocks I'd be in heaven.

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Now you’re getting there.  The electronic crossovers are so far ahead of passive ones that it’s comparing old tech with limited clarity due to the components in the signal path to new tech with ultimate flexibility and the potential for cleaner sound that is precisely dialled in, plus has the ability to be time-aligned, by applying a very specific delay to the shorter horns, so that notes that are played at the same time come out of all the horns at the same time.  I couldn’t think of a good analogy off the top of my head, so I gave you the literal comparison.

 

Settings can be changed as needed, but it’s really a set-it-and-forget-it system.  I first got my system going in March 2008, and was happy, but found the high treble to sound a bit dull.  In September of the same year, Roy issued new settings, with a boost at 18 kHz.  It took me only 20 minutes or so to punch in the settings on a new page (the Dx38 has 30 preset pages of settings, each page correct for a different combination of Electro/Voice speakers, plus 30 blank User pages for sets of custom settings), and now the system sounded great all the way to the top.  Cymbals in particular sounded more realistic.

 

Changing the response curve like that with passive crossovers would mean buying and installing new parts, and would not be such a precise correction anyway.  With the active processor like the Dx38 or the Xilica, it’s just a matter of punching in the new settings, but the original ones are still there, so you can switch back and forth to be sure which sounds better to you.

 

Originally, I was using K510 horns with K-69-A drivers.  In 2017, I switched to K402 horns.  Different correction curves and different amount of delay, since the 402s are much longer than the 510s.  No problem, Roy sent me the new settings, which went on Page 3 of the User settings in the Dx38.  In 2019, I switched to K-691 drivers, which have slightly different settings.  I have not got around to punching in those settings yet, but you get the idea.  The initial settings, on the 2-way speakers at least, are well-known, and if you change parts later, there are likely new settings available for them.

 

With the 3-way Jubilees, there are fewer users, because the extra volume they can produce is not needed, or even usable, in rooms smaller than an auditorium full of people.  I can’t swear on it, but I don’t think the 3-way system sounds better than the 2-way, it’s just capable of more volume.  As dwilawyer suggested, switching to 2-way for now could get you going and put a smile on your face, likely a very big one.  I think all you have to do is move the tweeter drivers from the 510 horns to the 402 horns, and you’re good to go.  That way, you’ll have the benefit of the knowledge and experience of all the 2-way Jubilee owners on here.

 

To get them going in 3-way mode, the pro audio guys are the better bet, because they work with these systems and are familiar with them.

 

So those are your two basic choices.  Going either way should give you great sound in your home, sound that makes you want to come home and turn on your stereo, so it can turn you on.  I feel your frustration.  I was combining wires every which way, it seemed to me, and getting only very faint music, along with a hum that was just about as loud.  Calling in a pro was a desperation move, but it was the right move, and in a couple of hours, all was good.

 

Best of luck getting your sound system to make the great sound it’s capable of.  It can be done, and you will get it done.

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9 hours ago, diamonddelts said:

I finally have some very positive news to report in the meantime. I returned all class D amps last week. I went back to storage and pulled one of my crown pro amps and put them on the 535 Jubilees just for a change of sound. I was shocked and pleasantly surprised with what I heard. Strong highs, piercing mids, and robust bass.

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts about all the different amplifiers you have tested to power your system. Lot of work involved to do that amount of "research".

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On ‎11‎/‎25‎/‎2020 at 12:31 AM, dwilawyer said:

Did you ever have 2 way Jubes going? Try that, if you can't get that to sound the way you wanr as a starting point, you are not going to be happy.

 

I think there are 3 people who went with 3 Way Jubes in the home, 2 of those I think sold, went in another direction 6'8" and maybe Greg?

 

Mark in GA has always sworn by 3 way, but he has gone to different bass bin I think, and passive crossovers with analog eq. 

 

That is not a large knowledge base for going 3 way unless you really, really know what you are doing. It isn't easy unless all is the work has been done for you. You have purchased a behind the screen professional cinema system for your home.

 

Why do you think 3 way vs. 2 way are the dream speakers?  Based on what you have heard in the 2 way? 

 

I think if you can get it dialed in 2 Way, it wont be that big of a leap to get you to 3 way.

Thanks

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2 hours ago, diamonddelts said:

I can only afford them used. My only concern is what if they break down after the 20 year warranty period has expired?

 

I would think that you call the factory and see where the nearest authorized service centre is, or, better yet, send them to the factory for repairs, just like any other component.  Part of the attraction is that the factory is in Canada.

 

On a possibly related note, when my Paradigm PW-2100 sub quit several years ago, I just took it to the shop where I bought it, SoundHounds.  They pulled out the amp and sent it to the Paradigm factory near Toronto.  A couple of weeks later, they had my amp repaired and re-installed, and it was good to go.  I was happy to pay the $200 repair bill.  It’s still working great.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/6/2020 at 2:43 AM, diamonddelts said:

I finally have some very positive news to report in the meantime. I returned all class D amps last week. I went back to storage and pulled one of my crown pro amps and put them on the 535 Jubilees just for a change of sound. I was shocked and pleasantly surprised with what I heard. Strong highs, piercing mids, and robust bass. It sounded as if my speakers were brought back from the dead.

 

I use a single Crown K2 for each speaker (wayyyyyy  over-kill)

 

No discernable noise (I have the gains at about 25%) and headroom to spare.  If I want to get stupid, then I can simply turn the gains up even more (but at 25% it can still drive you out of the room)

 

I've read in the past about these being (what I believe were called) "Kludge" amps.  Not really sure what that means but it wasn't a compliment.  I figure that's ok....  keep saying it.  That way the price of them on the used market won't skyrocket!!

 

 

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On ‎12‎/‎7‎/‎2020 at 1:43 PM, Islander said:

 

 

I would think that you call the factory and see where the nearest authorized service centre is, or, better yet, send them to the factory for repairs, just like any other component.  Part of the attraction is that the factory is in Canada.

 

On a possibly related note, when my Paradigm PW-2100 sub quit several years ago, I just took it to the shop where I bought it, SoundHounds.  They pulled out the amp and sent it to the Paradigm factory near Toronto.  A couple of weeks later, they had my amp repaired and re-installed, and it was good to go.  I was happy to pay the $200 repair bill.  It’s still working great.

That is a very good suggestion. I will do so on Monday. Maybe Santa will bring me an extra good gift this year which will allow for an upgrade to monoblock or stereo Bryston 7B amp.

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On ‎12‎/‎20‎/‎2020 at 10:12 AM, Coytee said:

 

I use a single Crown K2 for each speaker (wayyyyyy  over-kill)

 

No discernable noise (I have the gains at about 25%) and headroom to spare.  If I want to get stupid, then I can simply turn the gains up even more (but at 25% it can still drive you out of the room)

 

I've read in the past about these being (what I believe were called) "Kludge" amps.  Not really sure what that means but it wasn't a compliment.  I figure that's ok....  keep saying it.  That way the price of them on the used market won't skyrocket!!

 

 

I've read numerous positive reviews of the K-2 amps. If I can find one on ebay for a affordable price, I'm getting one before summertime

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On 12/25/2020 at 8:24 AM, Coytee said:

 

It also has a little brother, K1.

I have ended up with Crown XLI 800 amps and have been well pleased and $225 each new to my front door. I have people stop in to hear my S-MWM's who tell me they have better sounding amps but somehow they never bring them like they said they would on their return visits. I don't have a wide range of amps I can say I have listened to so maybe I am speaking out of ignorance but what I have is good enough that I am not looking.

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2 hours ago, Dave A said:

I have ended up with Crown XLI 800 amps and have been well pleased and $225 each new to my front door.

 

I got one of the XLi800 amps last year after you posted about them, anfd I think they are pretty good as well. Admittedly, I currently have the modified D-45 hooked up to the MWM/La Scala combo and it sounds excellent.

 

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