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diamonddelts

Klipsch Jubilee 535-B max power capacity

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8 hours ago, diamonddelts said:

You sir are very judgmental when you don't know the entire story. Have a blessed day.

I don't need to know "the entire story" when the subject at hand is "power capacity." I have met and respect Mike BSE and his helpful feedback on this subject. I have also actually OWNED Jubilees with TAD drivers on the K-402's (3 pairs actually). Unlike everyone else here,  also OWN and use Hypex Monobloc amplifiers currently every single day, and don't just look at spec. sheets. At $1,600 a pair, they are a great sounding amplifier, but would be OVERKILL for Jubilees.

 

My current speakers are 6 db less sensitive than Jube bass bins, which means the Jubes require 1/4 LESS power, which would mean 100 Watts, or 20 dbWatts, which yield 126 db peak output from the Jubes. Using more power than this, with a typical 100 db Signal to Noise ratios of most amps suggests that higher power amps will have more noise (which the jubes treble sections are most sensitive to REVEALING). So unless you are using those Jubes in a 5,000 set theater and not at home, I'm just trying to help you not making a mistake of possible burning out voice coils during an amp/preamp disconnect scenario that PWK warned us about (I also experienced this at PWK's home during one of his demos).

 

So basically the "entire story" you speak of, to me, means you just want someone to agree with your wrong headed direction with supporting OPINIONS rather that give you real world FACTS.

 

Being "judgmental" is what you, effectively, asked everyone here for by starting this thread.  All you have done is shown me you can't handle the Technical Truth backed by my experience, so I can only conclude that you will still go in the direction you were headed and no amount of facts to the contrary will convince you otherwise. Have a blessed day as well. 

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On 9/24/2020 at 5:39 PM, diamonddelts said:

So my question is if I get the hypex nc2000 monoblocks, and keep the volume below 100db, will I be doing any long-term damage to my speakers? 

 

I went back and looked for your direct question....  and the direct answer to that is "no" (which I presume you know by now)

 

With my old dbx BX-1 amp biamped with the McIntosh MC-2102 on top, and now the Crown K2's for each speaker....  I've probably gone toe to toe with anyone here with leaning into the volume.  I was finishing the basement and had the Jubilee's upstairs screaming their lungs out.  

 

You'll be fine.  I can get into more details if you wish (of having it pounding upstairs when CD changed to much hotter recording and it went from pounding to freaking thunderous....  to the point, I KEPT my -30 db hearing protection on to race up there to turn it off.....  as I was dashing to system, I was curious to power usage....  the meters on the McIntosh 2102 (100 watts/channel) were pegged and not moving.  It was violent loud.)

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1 hour ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

I don't need to know "the entire story" when the subject at hand is "power capacity." I have met and respect Mike BSE and his helpful feedback on this subject. I have also actually OWNED Jubilees with TAD drivers on the K-402's (3 pairs actually). Unlike everyone else here,  also OWN and use Hypex Monobloc amplifiers currently every single day, and don't just look at spec. sheets. At $1,600 a pair, they are a great sounding amplifier, but would be OVERKILL for Jubilees.

 

My current speakers are 6 db less sensitive than Jube bass bins, which means the Jubes require 1/4 LESS power, which would mean 100 Watts, or 20 dbWatts, which yield 126 db peak output from the Jubes. Using more power than this, with a typical 100 db Signal to Noise ratios of most amps suggests that higher power amps will have more noise (which the jubes treble sections are most sensitive to REVEALING). So unless you are using those Jubes in a 5,000 set theater and not at home, I'm just trying to help you not making a mistake of possible burning out voice coils during an amp/preamp disconnect scenario that PWK warned us about (I also experienced this at PWK's home during one of his demos).

 

So basically the "entire story" you speak of, to me, means you just want someone to agree with your wrong headed direction with supporting OPINIONS rather that give you real world FACTS.

 

Being "judgmental" is what you, effectively, asked everyone here for by starting this thread.  All you have done is shown me you can't handle the Technical Truth backed by my experience, so I can only conclude that you will still go in the direction you were headed and no amount of facts to the contrary will convince you otherwise. Have a blessed day as well. 

 I've already owned over 30 high powered amps while the Jubilee's were in my possession and never had any  technical issues.  

 

Your opinion is duly noted. Your frustration is not warranted. 

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56 minutes ago, Coytee said:

 

I went back and looked for your direct question....  and the direct answer to that is "no" (which I presume you know by now)

 

With my old dbx BX-1 amp biamped with the McIntosh MC-2102 on top, and now the Crown K2's for each speaker....  I've probably gone toe to toe with anyone here with leaning into the volume.  I was finishing the basement and had the Jubilee's upstairs screaming their lungs out.  

 

You'll be fine.  I can get into more details if you wish (of having it pounding upstairs when CD changed to much hotter recording and it went from pounding to freaking thunderous....  to the point, I KEPT my -30 db hearing protection on to race up there to turn it off.....  as I was dashing to system, I was curious to power usage....  the meters on the McIntosh 2102 (100 watts/channel) were pegged and not moving.  It was violent loud.)

My initial question was help on interpreting the specs for the 535b Jubilee. I was trying to figure out what is the most power the Jubilee's can safely take. My question was never what is the least amount of power these speakers can get by with. That is where Claude is finding himself frustrated for a question that I never asked.

 

 

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Do yours have a sticker??

 

 

Copy of tag.jpg

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10 hours ago, Coytee said:

Do yours have a sticker??

 

 

Copy of tag.jpg

Yes sir there Is a sticker on my bass bins which says 1200 watts @ 8 ohms. And the PDF I have for the Klipsch 535b states the recommended minimum power is 1200 watts.

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8 hours ago, diamonddelts said:

My initial question was help on interpreting the specs for the 535b Jubilee. I was trying to figure out what is the most power the Jubilee's can safely take. My question was never what is the least amount of power these speakers can get by with. That is where Claude is finding himself frustrated for a question that I never asked.

 

 

Good point about not asking. My bad for making that assumption. I had mostly safety of your hearing and voice coils in mind with my feedback going the other direction. Peace! Enjoy the music and crank as many decibels as you like. No problem here.

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16 hours ago, diamonddelts said:

PDF I have for the Klipsch 535b states the recommended minimum power is 1200 watts.

 

Not having seen that, I'd suppose that's most likely for the (I forget seating rating) 400 seat auditorium.

 

In the end, you'll get a sufficient amp (however you define that) and your right  hand (volume control) will keep you in check.

 

Side story:  Once had a couple guys over to hear them.  One thing I observed (in a very unscientific way I might add) the more I turned it up, the further back in the room they seemed to find themselves.  Turn it down and they ebbed back towards middle of room.... Sort of like a yo-yo.   Now, if I could only figure out how to apply that same success when certain neighbors come to visit... :ph34r:

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21 hours ago, Coytee said:

 

Not having seen that, I'd suppose that's most likely for the (I forget seating rating) 400 seat auditorium.

 

In the end, you'll get a sufficient amp (however you define that) and your right  hand (volume control) will keep you in check.

 

Side story:  Once had a couple guys over to hear them.  One thing I observed (in a very unscientific way I might add) the more I turned it up, the further back in the room they seemed to find themselves.  Turn it down and they ebbed back towards middle of room.... Sort of like a yo-yo.   Now, if I could only figure out how to apply that same success when certain neighbors come to visit... :ph34r:

I just moved to another home due to vehemently disliking my previous neighbors. I'm on a corner lot in this neighborhood so I have a bit more freedom when it comes to the volume. But I have a have a busybody neighbor to the left of me who I would definitely like to keep it at arm's length.

 

I I have never played music on movies uber loud in any of my setups. I normally don't go over 90db playback for movies or music. But in my past experience, the 200 watt per Channel amps I had we're almost nonexistent during low-volume listening. I constantly had to crank the volume to be able to hear low dialogue during movies. And dynamics during low volume playback with movies was always bad with the 200 watt per channel amps I previously owned.

 

It was always embarrassing when people ask me to turn the volume up during movie playback because they can't hear low dialogue during movies with the lower powered amps I owned. I've never had this issue with high-powered amps. Every high-powered amps I owned has given very clear dialogue at low listening levels. So that was my thinking when looking at amps. But beyond that, almost all of the low power, mid power, and high power amps at VTV are near the same price which makes this decision so hard.

 

I really want the Purifi amp but the power spec of 200 Watts at 8 ohms scares me. And the review show the amp at best puts out a little over 230 Watts continuous at 4 ohms. So that's why I normally don't deal with lower power amps since I know that most amps do not meet there specs anyway. I always take 30% off each power spec when I'm looking at a amp. 

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3 hours ago, diamonddelts said:

I have never played music on movies uber loud in any of my setups. I normally don't go over 90db playback for movies or music. But in my past experience, the 200 watt per Channel amps I had we're almost nonexistent during low-volume listening. I constantly had to crank the volume to be able to hear low dialogue during movies. And dynamics during low volume playback with movies was always bad with the 200 watt per channel amps I previously owned.

 

It was always embarrassing when people ask me to turn the volume up during movie playback because they can't hear low dialogue during movies with the lower powered amps I owned. I've never had this issue with high-powered amps. Every high-powered amps I owned has given very clear dialogue at low listening levels. So that was my thinking when looking at amps...

 

I believe that this is the "Streetlight Effect" in action: in this case, blaming amplifiers for another problem.  The problem is actually the movie soundtracks themselves. I experience this issue sometimes--based largely on the genre of movie that's played--and find that the dialogue is often mixed way too low vs. the sound effects for home movies, especially those movies having a lot of action sequences, i.e., comic-book character (Marvel) movies, etc. 

 

There is a fix for problem movies:  https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/blog/cant-hear-movie-dialogue-home/

 

Putting higher power amplifiers into your setup is probably only changing the amplifier gain so that you think that you're not having to turn it up quite as loud, when in reality, once you get the dialogue at the right level, the action sequences are still too loud, but you don't have to turn up the volume control as far to achieve this state.  But nothing really changes except not using as much preamp gain.  I'd recommend looking at different preamps instead if your present preamp doesn't have a good "night mode" control, or is noisy at higher gain levels.

 

Chris

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I purchased a Pascal amp rated at 400 watts per channel at 8 ohms and 800 watts per Channel at 4 ohms. Still had to crank it a bit to get the volume I wanted out of it. So it does appear that the Outlaw 976 voltage is not enough to drive most amps to their full potential.

 

With that being said I did like the high frequency extension  with the Pascal amp. But the mids seemed a bit too subdued. I would almost say recessed. And my ears felt fatigue after listening to the digital type sound after few hours So I returned it this week. I just placed an order for a pair of Hypex NC2K model monoblock amps. I don't want to have regrets this time, so I'm going all out.

 

Add to that I am contemplating a potential speaker change. I love the 535 Jubilees but their forward presentation can be fatiguing a times. I thought maybe I can rectify this by upgrading the drivers, but no one online has any information for upgrading the 3 way   version Jubilee. From what I read Hypex Ncore amps have a more neutral presentation with greater mid-range detail but less in your face highs.

 

If this gives me more mid-range detail and a more laid-back presentation then I will keep the Jubilees. If not, then as much as it pains my heart I will look into switching to either JBL M2 speakers or JTR Noesis 215RT speakers wherethe power of the Hypex NC2k amps would be more appropriate.

 

Also from what I've read online, the rms power of the NC1200 is closer to 500 watts before distortion rises and the rms power of the NC 2000 is closer to 800 watts before distortion rises. So I'm taking into account the usual manufacturer inflation on their rms numbers as well.

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After much headache, I received the NC2K monoblocks today. I'm experiencing a ground loop buzz in one amp. However, the second amp is very quiet when there is no volume. So s/n ratio concerns are moot with these amps. 

 

I really like their sound. It is clean, almost clinical. Mids are defined. Highs are smooth and not in your face. Even at peak volume, the highs remain laid back. The Ncore amps definitely have a cleaner and more defined sound vs the Pascal amps I had previously. Through all of the amps I've owned, I have noticed my speakers seem to sound fuller with higher watt amps. And it definitely feels like I always have better separation and definition with monoblocks.

 

With that being said, it seems the volume is much lower than I expected with these amps. So all the worries about these amps being too powerful were much to do about nothing. I am contemplating on getting some kind of voltage or gain booster. If I can't get this low volume issue fixed, I will have to return these amps. Which would be a real shame because I really like the way they sound with my speakers.

 

This is why I hate preamps for home audio. Pro mixers never have this issue with gain. Only low voltage preamps made for home audio.

 

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Maybe I missed it, what processor are you using for the system?

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On 9/27/2020 at 11:09 PM, babadono said:

Preamp to passive crossovers? then to power amps? I'm confused.

Again

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On 11/5/2020 at 3:25 PM, LTusler said:

Maybe I missed it, what processor are you using for the system?

Outlaw 976. It is a no-frills preamp which I am quite fond of.  However it's voltage/gain is the lowest of any preamp I've ever owned.

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2 hours ago, babadono said:

Again

 

Outlaw 976 outputting signal to monoblocks.

 

Monoblocks outputting power to passive crossovers.

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I'm not overly thrilled with the build quality of

VTV amplifiers. But for the price I can't complain. After talking with the owner, I am sending these amps back. He stated if I go with Sparkos or Sonic Imagery input buffer it will push the gain up to 34 DB total. This sounds like it would be more than beneficial for my scenario. However I'm just worried if it will drive up the s/n ratio to a discernable level of white noise with my horns.

 

The owner stated it should be quiet with the NC2K monoblocks after adding the input buffer.

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Have you considered a DSP in place of the passives?  I am using a Xilica 4080 with my 2 way Jubs and a 35W tube amp on the horns with a volume control on the input.  It has all of the volume I need and then some.  All connections are XLR.

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14 hours ago, LTusler said:

Have you considered a DSP in place of the passives?  I am using a Xilica 4080 with my 2 way Jubs and a 35W tube amp on the horns with a volume control on the input.  It has all of the volume I need and then some.  All connections are XLR.

I enquired about doing so last year. But no one was able to help me with settings for the 3-way Jubilee.

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