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diamonddelts

Klipsch Jubilee 535-B max power capacity

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The baseline settings are on page 2 of the spec sheets shown on page one if this thread.  I think I read somewhere that there is a passive xover between the mid and the high.  You will need 4 amp channels to drive the system through a DSP.

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And......the Klipsch settings for biamped 535Bs with the Klipsch passive between the mids and highs will get you 95-99% of the way to "it can't go no better". You can then start to split hairs and go 3 way triamp if you so desire. You will need a measurement mic(UMIK) and REW running on a computer to split those thin hairs.

Are you saying @Chris A would not help you? I doubt it

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So how much gain is there in your monoblocks? Some part of this puzzle is missing. You should be able to get these so loud you cannot stay in the room for more than 5 minutes without hearing protection.

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Are you using the XLR outs or RCA? The specs on the 976 imply the XLRs output voltage is double that of the RCAs.

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4 hours ago, babadono said:

And......the Klipsch settings for biamped 535Bs with the Klipsch passive between the mids and highs will get you 95-99% of the way to "it can't go no better". You can then start to split hairs and go 3 way triamp if you so desire. You will need a measurement mic(UMIK) and REW running on a computer to split those thin hairs.

Are you saying @Chris A would not help you? I doubt it

The slippery slope has no end! :) 

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The settings and network are designed so that when the speakers are behind s screen and you measure the response in the cinema auditorium, it will be pretty close to the x curve. In other words....the settings and the passive network will NOT yield a flat response in a regular listening room......

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Thanks Roy @Chief bonehead. I had forgotten about the "behind the screen" EQ. Hopefully my statement is still true that you will still be at 95%, OK so maybe not 99%.

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12 hours ago, babadono said:

Are you using the XLR outs or RCA? The specs on the 976 imply the XLRs output voltage is double that of the RCAs.

I am using xlr outs.

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12 hours ago, babadono said:

So how much gain is there in your monoblocks? Some part of this puzzle is missing. You should be able to get these so loud you cannot stay in the room for more than 5 minutes without hearing protection.

14db gain. :(

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7 hours ago, diamonddelts said:

14db gain. :(

Yea that is a bit anemic.

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On ‎11‎/‎20‎/‎2020 at 2:33 PM, babadono said:

@diamonddelts where'd you go with this?

 

I recently received NC2K monoblocks with upgrade to Sonic Imagery 990ENH input buffers last week. Sound quality was marginally improved. Gain was improved. However, there was a annoying buzz whenever the amps were in use. So it appears the signal to noise ratio was thrown out of wack with the gain increase.

 

Owner of VTV has been gracious about the entire process. Though I'm sure he is understandably frustrated. I am returning the NC2K monoblocks tomorrow. I wanted to try a stere Purifi amp, however the owner of VTV said their gain will be too low to use with my preamp.

 

At this point I am undeniably pissed and tired of my setup. There is zero help online for anyone looking to upgrade the 3 way version of the Jubilees. There are no other passive crossover upgrades available. There is no info for anyone using electronic crossovers with the 3 way Jubilees. I have a feeling the drivers of the 3 way 535 Jubilees could use an upgrade. They have a hard, metallic sound to them no matter what amp I use.

 

But there is zero info on compatible drivers which could be used as an upgrade path for the 535 Jubilees. No help. No upgrade path. No crossover upgrade info. No nothing. And I don't understand why weaksauce, sissified equipment with inflated prices is so prevalent in home audio. Low wattage amps which cost thousands. And low voltage, low gain preamps which can't push any amp to their full power. What is the point? Yet the pro audio offers equipment with much higher signal strength pair with much higher wattage amps for much lower cost. High priced home audio cables which add nothing. The more I dive into home audio, the more it seems that 90% of if is snake oil.

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Hmmmmm... this seems crazy to me.  Those amps are 1600W into 8 ohms, correct? And what is the gain with the input buffers? 20dB? Or more? And what passive crossovers do you have? The Outlaw 976 says it puts out 4V nominal and 9V max. With 20dB gain that would be 40 and 90 volts respectively. So at nominal that would be 200 watts into 8 ohms peaking at up to 1012 watts. These speakers should be "too damn loud" at those wattages except maybe in a cinema or outdoors.

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BTW I think the buzz could have been dealt with and rectified.

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4 hours ago, babadono said:

Hmmmmm... this seems crazy to me.  Those amps are 1600W into 8 ohms, correct? And what is the gain with the input buffers? 20dB? Or more? And what passive crossovers do you have? The Outlaw 976 says it puts out 4V nominal and 9V max. With 20dB gain that would be 40 and 90 volts respectively. So at nominal that would be 200 watts into 8 ohms peaking at up to 1012 watts. These speakers should be "too damn loud" at those wattages except maybe in a cinema or outdoors.

 

Owner of VTV stated the gain with the input buffers and op amps was 34db. The amps were able to get loud with the input buffers but still no one where near as loud as my lower spec'd pro amps such as the Crown XLI 3500. I offered to go with a lower spec Purifi amp with onboard buffer but the VTV owner refused and stated the gain would be too low to use with Outlaw 976 preamp. So I am stuck at this time. I can go with a used Bryston 7B amp but who knows how long it will last.

 

Or I could go back to Emotiva and get the DR-1 monoblocks. The Hypex and Pascal amps were not as bright on the HF as the Emotiva DR-2. Their sound was less aggressive but at the same time their mids and highs  seems recessed in comparison. Lab Gruppen class D would also be an option. I wish there were more affordable audiophile class A/B amps available. But all I see is the usual snake oil low watt amps with big price tags in the home audio market.  

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4 hours ago, babadono said:

BTW I think the buzz could have been dealt with and rectified.

 

4 hours ago, babadono said:

 

The owner of VTV suggested I remove the jumper cables on the amps in order to reduce the gain. I'm just too tired to deal with at this point. A part of me still believes the 3 way 535 Jubilees are my dream speakers. But I don't know how to bring out their full  potential.

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On 11/23/2020 at 3:15 AM, diamonddelts said:

A part of me still believes the 3 way 535 Jubilees are my dream speakers. But I don't know how to bring out their full  potential.

I wish I could help, but you seem to not take suggestions that vary from your initial notions of what is wrong and how to fix it. 

 

I recommend taking a moment to think about some of these suggestions again. 

 

I'd recommend abandoning the extremely high power amplifiers.  You've bought loudspeakers that are way too efficient, such that you will never need that kind of input power--and this is the best decision that you've made, thus far IMHO.  Jubilees are the best sound quality loudspeakers that I've heard for home hi-fi sized listening environments.

 

Instead, I would again recommend a tri-amp setup with something like Hypex FusionAmps at each loudspeaker.  I recommend the lowest powered Hypex FA123 (125w/channel for each on-board amplifier) and not the highest powered FA503.  This is suggested for the sake of simplicity and compactness of the design, as well as the noted fidelity of the Hypex NCore amplifiers.  Not only will you be saving yourself a significant amount of money but you will also have a much lower noise system, and you will not be trading away anything in terms of acoustic output/sound quality (quite the contrary, in fact).

 

The only need you will have is the ability to take in-room REW measurements with a calibrated microphone (a $94 miniDSP UMIK-1 is more than sufficient).  Once this is done and you have learned how to take measurements, you can email those measurements to someone else that can help you dial in the DSP crossover portion of the amplifier assembly.  I think that you will be greatly impressed by the results that you hear.  After having gone through this initial dialing-in process, you can change any of the settings to your heart's desire and immediately compare those settings with the initial settings, etc.  So you have a very flexible system that will be able to change with your electronics fancies, including direct digital inputs to the amplifiers (choosing among AES3, S/PDIF electrical and optical), if you so choose which will eliminate all unnecessary digital-analog conversions in the signal chain, and give you one D-to-A conversion at the individual amplifiers, then immediately provide that power to each driver in your three-way loudspeakers, which itself is another efficiency boosting configuration (eliminating the added reactance and resistance of passive crossovers).  The benefits in terms of sound quality are very audible.

 

This is all "JMTC" from a 13-year Jubilee owner and engineer who learned a lot from the people on this forum, and also spent a significant amount of time in experimentation after understanding and taking the advice of those knowledgeable forum members that were willing to help here.

 

Chris

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Searching for the ultimate speakers, and then grumbling because you don’t see an upgrade path seems like the route to frustration, no matter what you do.  It is possible to spend unlimited amounts of money on audio systems, but does a $200,000 system sound that much better than a $100,000 one?  I mean that no sound system will give a 100% experience of a live band in your room, no matter how much you spend.  At some point, you have to say “That’s good enough!”, and start just enjoying your music,

 

The outfit you have is great.  I wish I had the money and the room for it.  As it is, my speakers are 5’ 7” tall already.  It took a certain amount of dialling in, and there’s more to do, when I get the energy to do it, but for now, I’m really happy with how it sounds.

 

I hope you can get your system sorted.  When I first hooked up the bi-amped JubScalas with the Dx38, I went through a lot of frustration, trying to get rid of a hum and hearing barely whisper level music.  Some of the other forum members helped, especially mikebse2a3, but some of what he said was beyond my understanding.  

 

After two weeks of frustration, I called Pacific Audio Works, the local concert sound company.  The guy nearly dropped the phone when I told him I was struggling to integrate a Dx38 into a home system, but he agreed to send over a technician.  That guy struggled, too, and had to call back to the shop twice for advice, as well as swapping and resoldering one or two of the RCA-to-XLR adapter cables.

 

However, two hours later, he had it sorted.  I put in a concert DVD, No Doubt Rock Steady Live, and his jaw dropped.  He said, in an amazed voice, “You can hear everything!”  When a concert sound guy is amazed at a home system, it’s a good system.  The $120 or so that it cost me to bring him over was money well spent.  

 

Now volume of the music was normal, and the shop instructed him how to run a ground wire to get rid of the hum, because the various components were connected to two different circuits in my home.  It worked!

 

You might want to call a local pro sound shop, one that’s familiar with these big pro systems.  Maybe Cory at Paducah could recommend a shop near you that works with Klipsch systems.  They work with them every day, and generally know how to solve problems with them quickly.  It could save you a lot of frustration.

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34dB of gain? Holy Guacamole. Thats 50x so 4v nominal input would be 200V which would be 5000W into 8 ohms(if that were possible) And little old me, I can't stay in my room for more than 5 minutes with 10watts going into my bass bins and some fraction thereof into the 402s.

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On 11/23/2020 at 3:15 AM, diamonddelts said:

 

The owner of VTV suggested I remove the jumper cables on the amps in order to reduce the gain. I'm just too tired to deal with at this point. A part of me still believes the 3 way 535 Jubilees are my dream speakers. But I don't know how to bring out their full  potential.

Did you ever have 2 way Jubes going? Try that, if you can't get that to sound the way you wanr as a starting point, you are not going to be happy.

 

I think there are 3 people who went with 3 Way Jubes in the home, 2 of those I think sold, went in another direction 6'8" and maybe Greg?

 

Mark in GA has always sworn by 3 way, but he has gone to different bass bin I think, and passive crossovers with analog eq. 

 

That is not a large knowledge base for going 3 way unless you really, really know what you are doing. It isn't easy unless all is the work has been done for you. You have purchased a behind the screen professional cinema system for your home.

 

Why do you think 3 way vs. 2 way are the dream speakers?  Based on what you have heard in the 2 way? 

 

I think if you can get it dialed in 2 Way, it wont be that big of a leap to get you to 3 way.

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