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Help! Cornwall IV vs RF7 III for electronic music


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I still have two pair of speakers.. I have cornwall IV's 3 weeks old and RF7 III's new one week( sold first pair after 1 yr then bought new again week ago ). I am not an electronic wiz at all and I did not realize what I would be getting myself into by buying both pair. I do not have any fancy tube amps or turn tables or extras.. I just have both hooked up to a selector switch and switch between both pair. I drive them both with yahama RX-A3080 9.2 intregated receiver and a emotiva 3 channel amp at 275watts...

I have spl-150 sub and 4  RP 500 sa...atmos speakers 2 used for atmos up and 2 used for surround backs then RS-500S for surround .. I mainly have used the rf7-III's for my surround system and to me it is great but after buying cornwall IV's  now some are saying ditch the surrounds and junk emotiva and yahama. Then they expound I should get a elaborate tube amp and turntable and other hi dollar accessories. 

 

My confused question is ! Why do I have to ditch any of my surround stuff including the RF7 III's??? I realize both the rf's and corn's deliver differently and efficiency is much better in the 3 way  corn's. Therefore many suggest the corn's are better suited for audiophile listeners. OK, I can buy that!

 

  So # 1. Am I correct saying both are great speakers except the corn's are suited for different listening especially with hi tech tube amps and add on's (turntables and reel tapes etc etc) Thats a lot of money and I cannot afford to be a true audiophile in that instance BUT I repeat BUT !!! I am wondering maybe to get the true value out of both pair of speakers (instead of trying to decide which pair to sell, which is blowing my mind because not even having expensive tube amps and hi tech on either pair I still LOVE both)...

I still believe my gear delivers great sound but I am  assuming the hi tech stuff (tube amps and turntables) filter and purify the sound to the max and there is a distinct notible difference and tells me that the sky is the limit depending how much money one wants to spend !!   However if tube amps and hi tech add ons are that notibly great I was also told even the rf7III's would sound great with tube amps and hi tech stuff too. So all I can say is WOW!!!!  Now if thats true then one would have to pick which pair sounds better the corns or rf's but many say the corns are better listening because of 3 way system and bigger case etc with the ports... OH WELL!

 

So here is what I am boiling it down to !!! I am thinking in order to get the max out of utilizing both pair of my speakers I am going to keep the rf7III's with all my inferior junk(as some say) yamaha and surround stuff including the emotiva junk and listening to that set up for movies and yes even music or whatever but I am thinking about setting the corn's up with as affordable tube amp set up and turntable system to see if there is notible difference so I maybe able to have the best of 2 worlds so to speak.

 

So HELP me plkease ! I do not know what equipment is needed to use tube amps. Do I need a preamp and then the tube amp?? And is the tube amps low watts because of they're efficiency?? but do they only hook up to 2 channels. So tell me what I need to set up corn's to get (Limited) audiophile listening quality. I say limited because I see some here has $10,000 tube amps and hi dollar turn tables etc etc and I cannot afford hi dollar so what could I get to give me good audiophile quality for most economical buck?? 

Lastly: Tell me what I need in equipment to get to set up the corn's for audiophile listening. Again and lastly such as Is a pre amp necessary(Because I do not know what they do?) and then a 2 channel amp in line with the preamp?? I understand a pre amp allows to hook up several accessories such as turn tables, reel players and other switchable devices?? OK guys help this uneducated listener become a ture audiophile? Thanks !!! Sorry but you guys are the pro's !

Edited by cornwall IV's vs RF7III
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I talked to a couple of professional audio specialist about whe return on investment for the real expensive add on's to tweek speakers and units such as tube amps and expensive turntables and other pre amp accessories as many on this group post they're hardware and a lot  if not all post hi tech expensive preamps and tube amps or top names such as McIntosh. I ask for that great expense what is the reward or return and both said if one has quality intregrated amps and even a power amp delivering 3 channel 275 watts etc. not junk you probably get most of your greatest quality listening peak of 90% and both said of the remaining 10% of the best possible sound that remotely audible the guys spending all that money probably get an additional 3 to 4 % improvement of that remaining 10% of perfection and to some the 3 to 4 % improvement is enough to justify the real expensive add on hardware. But to the average listener with average knowlege of speakerbrands and receivers and amps etc the 90% is enough for them. Both said most of the real expensive add ons is basically for bragging rights and to some their expensive stuff  is no better than the average joe blow. I know one thing I want to possible build my cornIV's with a nice preamp and tube amp and just 2 channel and see how they really stack up to my common yahama intregated 165 watt surround receiver and emotiva 275 watt 3 CHANNEL amp driving the RF7 III's and see where it all stacks up especially for those who dump on guys like me and say get rid of all that junk Don't know If I want to spend 5 or 6 or even 19K on all extras unless I want to build a recording studio..Wonder how many private jets some own?

Edited by cornwall IV's vs RF7III
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It sounds like you have quite a bit of money wrapped up in speakers already. If you are happy with how both sets sound, just sit back and enjoy the music. Find a forum member close by that can demo some of the gear you are interested in. Buying gear blindly might not give you the results you are looking for. 

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OP

 

You need to find a different “professional audio specialist”.

 

A good two channel/amp preamp combo or quality tube integrated amp will be head and shoulders above what you are using now. Yes it’s true that the law of diminishing returns kicks in at some point, but you aren’t there yet. You are leaving too much on the table.

 

Oz

 

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Take a long car trip to whatever dealer has both, or to a forum member who has both, or at least one.  Listening is really the only way.

 

I'm biased in favor of the big woofer and port of a Cornwall, but it is a bias, particularly because I have only heard earlier Cornwalls.

 

As you know, Conwalls are Heritage, and Heritage are available at only certain selected dealers.  This will help you find a dealer:

 
Hear it in a Showroom
Find a Certified Heritage Dealer near you
Your Location:  

Search Radius: (number of miles)

__________

If this doesn't work, find it on the Cornwall IV Klipsch website.

Phone ahead to make sure they have Cornwall IV in the showroom, ready to hear.

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These responces are great and gives me focus as how to approach. The comments " Yes it’s true that the law of diminishing returns kicks in at some point,". Is a realistic comment and it is up to the end user how to judge his investment vs his return".  Great comment shakeydeal....

I am in the position as to how much can I afford to spend vs what I can get in return and the spend amount isn't much so ??  I will be honest as I listen to both pair right now I cannot hear a lot of difference except from the corn IV's seperation of the 3 way and wider cabinet where as the RF7 III delivers compact mid range because of being a 2 way and more compact cabinent. However truly they both sound great. BTW! wouldn't tube amps and hi tech stuff also improve the quality of listening in the RF III's also??

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9 hours ago, cornwall IV's vs RF7III said:

BTW! wouldn't tube amps and hi tech stuff also improve the quality of listening in the RF III's also??

Depending on where you are located, there may be an high end audio dealer near you. They may allow you to demo a tube integrated amp at home. We tried a Luxman tube integrated on my khorns for a weekend. I stuck with my Parasound gear since it wasn't drastic enough to warrant the cost, especially since I bought my Parasound gear new only a couple of years ago.

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  • 2 weeks later...

On the one hand, it is a very great and kind help that there is a forum like this. I have read the thread and I really understand all sides that are presented here.
It is much easier in this day and age through modern communication, etc.. But that we have a hifi dealer where we can listen to certain brands and products together, seems to be increasingly rare. In addition, you often have huge distances in the US. I can choose between quite a few hifi dealers because we have a big city every 100 to 200 km. Still, most of the good demo opportunities are in the past. And...not every dealer borrows 1000s of dollars heavy and fragile tube amps for home testing. 

Just to pick a few aspects. And please forgive me, it is my very subjective opinion.

I write based on my experience of 45 years listening, building speakers (earlier) and gradually growing into the thing...also for 30 years with tube amps (for 45 years tube guitar amps).
I would give the tube amp a chance but by no means! blindly buy something or anything.


It's like any subject, from afar it looks clear but when you approach it can quickly become a whole cosmos. Just read here in the forum the tubes section how crazy it must sound to a newcomer when discussing long plates, short plates, rough series, smooth series, vintages, brands, licenses under other brands, etc.. 

 

Tube amps are actually exotic as a category, but within this world there are again exotic among the exotic. I would avoid them being new. That means: no brand that is not known, no tubes that are not easy to get, no circuit principle that only highlights certain aspects. In my opinion, the best choice in your case would be a tube amp that a) has an integrated preamp (to be sure that the power section gets a controlled driver signal…not just your cd players output), and b) is equipped with popular tubes. Then it should be a push pull pentode. This sounds special but it describes the most common circuit. Because many other tube amps don't have enough power to cover a wide range of music. Even if the CW4 are very effective, I would recommend at least 20 watts per channel (but it doesn't have to be more!)...for the entry level. Only if you want to tickle out certain characteristics (holographic sound etc.) you can buy a 2.5 watt amp later. But the 20 watts make sure that there is enough power available.


I have no experience with modern brands, as I only have 50 to 60 year old European tube amps and my now 20 year old tube Mcintosh. 
But what I keep reading about, which seems to be a very reasonable and affordable and reliable brand that meets all the conditions I listed above, comes from Holland in Europe, the brand name is Primaluna. There seems to be quite a few of these in the USA so there is a used market. and believe me the used stuff is not bad but the previous owners want to enjoy the rush of the increase.

Another aspect. Remember that tube amps need some attention, and that depending on the device and the number of hours the power tubes can last a year or 4 years or even longer.

 

Think about entering this world of tubes, i think it's worth it, but i can say absolutely nothing about electronic music and tube amps. i don't know what matters there. fullness, space, colorfulness, emotion probably likes any kind of music. but e.g. a dry deep fast bass is more a transistor domain.

 

I wouldn't think obsessively in categories either. Does it have to be a tube amp? Aren't there also very good transistor amps for the same money that fit your music preference? Even with the transistor amps there are very attractive devices. Not to make any irritation here, there are just as big differences in transistor amplifiers as in tube amplifiers. There are good transistor amps and bad tube amps and vice versa. One should give all the same chance of the test hearing.

 

A buddy has one of those newer Yamaha integrated amps that are pure analog with Klipsch speakers (columns I don't know the type). It's really fun to listen to and sounds very musical. Or some of what Steve Guttenberg recommends, Pass, Shiit etc.

I can also imagine that some transistor amp is easier to ship for test listening than such a very heavy tube amp, where the tubes can break.

 

To wrap it up...I can't think in quantities. what "are" those 4% beyond your 90%?
It's about the feeling of the moment of happiness, about a spark being created, and a pleasant satisfaction and anticipation of the next evening. And that it's the music you love to listen to after the honeymoon is over, where you love to listen to the new stereo.

If this additional 4% creates this leap in quality, then it is the four essential percentages. 


Just saw this thread about happy Heritage Klipsch owners and a transistor amp brand.

 

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On 8/12/2021 at 3:18 PM, Shakeydeal said:

 

You need to get rid of all those other speakers (center, surrounds, etc.) and all that gimmicky processing. Listen to the Cornwalls on a good two channel amplifier. If all you care about is surround sound and  home theater, by all means don't waste money on a pair of Cornwall IVs. Just about anything you could get at Best Buy would suffice for such an application.......

 

Man, I agree .. I absolutely cannot let go of my RF7 III's since I bought the corn IV's in addition to having the RF7's I cannot let either go and have stressed trying which one's to get rid of. I have concluded I am going to keep the RF7III's with all my surround junk.. yahama 9.2 channel A3080 intregrated receiver and my emoptiva 3 channel amp with my 4 atmos 500sa's and my surround 502S pair and my RC64 III center channel and use that stuff for my home theatre.  I am going to buy a 2 channel amp (parasound hint6) or maybe a cheap McIntosh intregrated amp and use the 2 channel amp on my corn IV's alomg with maybe a bluesound node 2021 version so I can stream efficiently. then maybe later add a turn table. I realize I took offense when some said get rid of all that junk but now realize corn's are for refined listening and would be almost a waste on the surround junk and better suited for great 2 channel clean listening. Sooo??

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On 9/22/2021 at 9:19 AM, KT88 said:

On the one hand, it is a very great and kind help that there is a forum like this. I have read the thread and I really understand all sides that are presented here.
It is much easier in this day and age through modern communication, etc.. But that we have a hifi dealer where we can listen to certain brands and products together, seems to be increasingly rare. In addition, you often have huge distances in the US. I can choose between quite a few hifi dealers because we have a big city every 100 to 200 km. Still, most of the good demo opportunities are in the past. And...not every dealer borrows 1000s of dollars heavy and fragile tube amps for home testing. 

Just to pick a few aspects. And please forgive me, it is my very subjective opinion.

I write based on my experience of 45 years listening, building speakers (earlier) and gradually growing into the thing...also for 30 years with tube amps (for 45 years tube guitar amps).
I would give the tube amp a chance but by no means! blindly buy something or anything.


It's like any subject, from afar it looks clear but when you approach it can quickly become a whole cosmos. Just read here in the forum the tubes section how crazy it must sound to a newcomer when discussing long plates, short plates, rough series, smooth series, vintages, brands, licenses under other brands, etc.. 

 

Tube amps are actually exotic as a category, but within this world there are again exotic among the exotic. I would avoid them being new. That means: no brand that is not known, no tubes that are not easy to get, no circuit principle that only highlights certain aspects. In my opinion, the best choice in your case would be a tube amp that a) has an integrated preamp (to be sure that the power section gets a controlled driver signal…not just your cd players output), and b) is equipped with popular tubes. Then it should be a push pull pentode. This sounds special but it describes the most common circuit. Because many other tube amps don't have enough power to cover a wide range of music. Even if the CW4 are very effective, I would recommend at least 20 watts per channel (but it doesn't have to be more!)...for the entry level. Only if you want to tickle out certain characteristics (holographic sound etc.) you can buy a 2.5 watt amp later. But the 20 watts make sure that there is enough power available.


I have no experience with modern brands, as I only have 50 to 60 year old European tube amps and my now 20 year old tube Mcintosh. 
But what I keep reading about, which seems to be a very reasonable and affordable and reliable brand that meets all the conditions I listed above, comes from Holland in Europe, the brand name is Primaluna. There seems to be quite a few of these in the USA so there is a used market. and believe me the used stuff is not bad but the previous owners want to enjoy the rush of the increase.

Another aspect. Remember that tube amps need some attention, and that depending on the device and the number of hours the power tubes can last a year or 4 years or even longer.

 

Think about entering this world of tubes, i think it's worth it, but i can say absolutely nothing about electronic music and tube amps. i don't know what matters there. fullness, space, colorfulness, emotion probably likes any kind of music. but e.g. a dry deep fast bass is more a transistor domain.

 

I wouldn't think obsessively in categories either. Does it have to be a tube amp? Aren't there also very good transistor amps for the same money that fit your music preference? Even with the transistor amps there are very attractive devices. Not to make any irritation here, there are just as big differences in transistor amplifiers as in tube amplifiers. There are good transistor amps and bad tube amps and vice versa. One should give all the same chance of the test hearing.

 

A buddy has one of those newer Yamaha integrated amps that are pure analog with Klipsch speakers (columns I don't know the type). It's really fun to listen to and sounds very musical. Or some of what Steve Guttenberg recommends, Pass, Shiit etc.

I can also imagine that some transistor amp is easier to ship for test listening than such a very heavy tube amp, where the tubes can break.

 

To wrap it up...I can't think in quantities. what "are" those 4% beyond your 90%?
It's about the feeling of the moment of happiness, about a spark being created, and a pleasant satisfaction and anticipation of the next evening. And that it's the music you love to listen to after the honeymoon is over, where you love to listen to the new stereo.

If this additional 4% creates this leap in quality, then it is the four essential percentages. 


Just saw this thread about happy Heritage Klipsch owners and a transistor amp brand.

 

I agree with your comments and they are spot on... Here is my statement to address along your comments that I feel line up.. As follows My comments:  I absolutely cannot let go of my RF7 III's since I bought the corn IV's in addition to having the RF7's I cannot let either go and have stressed myself out trying which one's to get rid of. I have concluded I am going to keep the RF7III's with all my surround junk.. yahama 9.2  channel A3080 intregrated receiver and my emoptiva 3 channel amp with my 4 atmos 500sa's and my surround 502S pair and my RC64 III center channel and use that stuff for my home theatre surrounds..(I may invest with yahama's new state of the art A8A amp coming out soon)  .. .But for immeadiate future  I am going to buy a 2 channel amp (parasound hint6) or maybe a cheap McIntosh intregrated amp and use the 2 channel amp on my corn IV's along with maybe a bluesound node 2021 version so I can stream efficiently. then maybe later add a turn table. I realize I took offense when some said get rid of all that junk but now realize corn's are for refined listening..... P.S. My take on tube amps is after many consultations is tube amps may filter and smooth out pleasure audiophile listening however a good solid state intregrated amp or a pre amp, amp combo either will surifce. Tube amps are audiophile's fantacy but do not really seperate audio sound enough from solid state amps. anyway.. Thanks guys for giving me direction..

Edited by cornwall IV's vs RF7III
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After two and a half satisfying years with a Bluesound Node 2i, I have a new Node (without amp) since June. I am totally thrilled, it is worth every penny. A real jump from the 2i and also with fantastic tunein sound. MQA Tidal is now clearly audible and more emotional and spatial than with the 2i, the difference to CD quality is now clear. You will have a lot of fun with your 2021 Node.

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10 hours ago, KT88 said:

After two and a half satisfying years with a Bluesound Node 2i, I have a new Node (without amp) since June. I am totally thrilled, it is worth every penny. A real jump from the 2i and also with fantastic tunein sound. MQA Tidal is now clearly audible and more emotional and spatial than with the 2i, the difference to CD quality is now clear. You will have a lot of fun with your 2021 Node.

Is the node doing the DAC work in your system or is it staying digital out of the node and another device is doing the coverting? Just trying to understand how it sounds so much better. I have a node node 2 and a node 2i. Might be tough to convince the wife on a newer node unless there's a huge difference. In my main system with the node 2, my Parasound P6 is the DAC.

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As far as I can see there have been no updates since the Node 2i replaced the original Node. There is no new product that I can find. I had a 2i and the internal DAC I would describe as adequate. My MHDT dac easily outperformed it.

 

I have since moved on to a Lumin streamer that is quite a bit better than the Node, but also much more expensive. So if you have a Node 2i, you have the latest version.

 

Shakey

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1 hour ago, Shakeydeal said:

As far as I can see there have been no updates since the Node 2i replaced the original Node. There is no new product that I can find. I had a 2i and the internal DAC I would describe as adequate. My MHDT dac easily outperformed it.

 

I have since moved on to a Lumin streamer that is quite a bit better than the Node, but also much more expensive. So if you have a Node 2i, you have the latest version.

 

Shakey

If you check out bluesound's website, there is a new Node product, and the 2i is listed as a previous model.

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