boom3 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 So, in matching tube amp to Klipschorns, what is the most important factor in getting a satisfactory result? Is it damping factor? Power output? Amplifier class (SET vs P-P)? I realize each has its advocates, but I am just curious as a life-long SS user. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube fanatic Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 It depends on your definition of satisfactory. Some users like very low DF SEPs, often with less than 1 wpc, while others prefer 60 or more wpc. The only way for you to make a determination is to try various tube amps and draw your own conclusions. Maynard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry4841 Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 IMHO you can expect lovely lifelike vocals with a tube amplifier. The midrange is where tube amplifiers shine not that they are deficient in the lows and highs with comparable watts. The biggest difference you are going to notice is comparing a SS amp with a good SET tube amplifier. I have both high power SS PP amplifiers and 5 watt SET tube amplifiers. For a change in sound I swap back and forth. There are a few SE SS amps around but only on the higher end price wise. Most SS amps are push pull. That is the way to get big watts which we do not need with our speakers. Ones choice in music is also a big determining factor on which you will prefer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikon f Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 If you can solder and are interested in tubes take a look at the Bottlehead kits. Fun to build and almost moron proof assembly instructions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 21 hours ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said: The vintage Klipschhorn takes more power than some think. This is due to the fact that ( 1 ) it has a more parts-intensive and complex three way crossover to drive ( with attendant losses ) and ( 2 ) has less than state of the art wiring, crossover to drivers, hence a lower signal transfer efficiency. Low power tube amps, in the one to three Watts range, ( which can be the best sounding of all tube amps available ) will not drive the speaker as needed in demanding playback situations. I find as tube amps increase in power, typically over about two Watts, you are trading off the ultimate in SQ ( sound quality ) for that amp's extra power. It is " the " age-old audio dilemma. Consider carefully all possibilities, all combinations, and make wise choices for yourself. Amps, not speakers, are the real problem in audio, given a good source you want to play back, intact as recorded . According to this statement, is the reason I went full active. Now I have the best of both worlds SET and SS running my highly modded Khorns.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boom3 Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 Thanks for the replies, however, let me re-phrase the inquiry: If one has two tube amps identical in every way, except for one output transformer having a lower secondary resistance than the other, which will be abetter match for Klipschorns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 6 hours ago, boom3 said: Thanks for the replies, however, let me re-phrase the inquiry: If one has two tube amps identical in every way, except for one output transformer having a lower secondary resistance than the other, which will be abetter match for Klipschorns? you have not provided any useful information based upon what you say the higher secondary resistance will provide a better load for the amplifier and might sound better or you might not notice any or much difference. Using the full secondary winding is always going to be better and may sound better than a lower ohm tap will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 10 hours ago, boom3 said: Thanks for the replies, however, let me re-phrase the inquiry: If one has two tube amps identical in every way, except for one output transformer having a lower secondary resistance than the other, which will be abetter match for Klipschorns? The one that sounds the best to your ears!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube fanatic Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 16 hours ago, boom3 said: Thanks for the replies, however, let me re-phrase the inquiry: If one has two tube amps identical in every way, except for one output transformer having a lower secondary resistance than the other, which will be abetter match for Klipschorns? The DC resistance of the secondary is of no consequence in general. The output impedance is a different matter. I have used high output impedance as well as low output impedance amps with Khorns and have gotten excellent results with both. Again, you would need to experience different amps yourself and choose what you find most pleasing. No one can tell you what will be best for your ears. Maynard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backfire Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 On 10/12/2020 at 4:55 PM, boom3 said: So, in matching tube amp to Klipschorns, what is the most important factor in getting a satisfactory result? Is it damping factor? Power output? Amplifier class (SET vs P-P)? I realize each has its advocates, but I am just curious as a life-long SS user. Another point is that what is commonly called the "damping factor" is a rather misleading, not to say almost meaningless, concept. I sketched a couple of diagrams in a pdf, to show what I mean. Its not a new point I'm making, and is perfectly well understood by those who analyse equivalent circuits, but it is one that does not seem to be widely appreciated. The calculations I've included are a bit rough and ready, but they illustrate the key idea. The main point is that the speaker resistance (literally the resistive component of the speaker's impedance) should be being added to the output impedance of the amplifier, and it should appear in the denominator in the calculation of a meaningful damping factor. (Not added into the numerator, where it is commonly put!) Because the speaker resistance is generally a major contributor to the overall impedance of the speaker, it means the true damping factor will never really get much larger than about 1. damping-factor.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boom3 Posted October 16, 2020 Author Share Posted October 16, 2020 thank you Backfire. As a former tech, this is exactly hat I was looking for. I may PM you later with questions thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube fanatic Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 14 hours ago, Backfire said: Another point is that what is commonly called the "damping factor" is a rather misleading, not to say almost meaningless, concept. I sketched a couple of diagrams in a pdf, to show what I mean. Its not a new point I'm making, and is perfectly well understood by those who analyse equivalent circuits, but it is one that does not seem to be widely appreciated. The calculations I've included are a bit rough and ready, but they illustrate the key idea. The main point is that the speaker resistance (literally the resistive component of the speaker's impedance) should be being added to the output impedance of the amplifier, and it should appear in the denominator in the calculation of a meaningful damping factor. (Not added into the numerator, where it is commonly put!) Because the speaker resistance is generally a major contributor to the overall impedance of the speaker, it means the true damping factor will never really get much larger than about 1. damping-factor.pdf 411.16 kB · 11 downloads Well stated. Yet, having an output impedance of 30+ ohms, as is often found with SEPs when no voltage fb is used, seems to make little or no difference when used with many speakers. Maynard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube fanatic Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Here is what Augspurger and Murphy had to say about this very interesting subject: https://butleraudio.com/damping1.php Maynard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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