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jdmccall

Klipsch Missing Boat w/o "Heritage Subs?

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Yeah, I know PWK never designed and sold a sub for mating with k-horn, la scala, belle, cornwall, heresy, etc., but...  Klipsch now sells lots of products under the "Heritage" banner that were not around when PWK was.  So, why in the name of all that's right and good, does klipsch not design, build and market a high-quality sub (or three) to go with the huge installed base of heritage speakers that have been sold all over the world?  Make grille styles and cabinet finishes optional to match different era's of Heritage speakers.  Don't be too greedy on pricing and they will sell faster than Hope can build!

 

Thoughts?

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I'd wonder if he felt the Khorn was sufficient to bring the orchestra into his  home?  (no need for sub back then??)

 

You'd need a horn sub...and it's going to be a big one.  they DO have at least one horn sub in their cinema lineup.  Most people wouldn't care for the size of it.

 

Then....you have those genuine nutso's  (said with requisite affection & admiration) who have one and are the envy of everyone else!!

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Coytee said:

they DO have at least one horn sub in their cinema lineup.

Yea but........the finish does not match... BAU for a home environment...just my HO.

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Black is slimming.... didn't someone get one with a Walnut front??

 

Besides....  movie is on, lights are off....  who's going to see it until you thwack it with your foot while getting up to get more popcorn??  (and breaks your ankle!!)

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I'm not thinking horn subs.  Too big for about 99.9% of the human race according to a study that was never done.  Too big even for most klipschorn and la scala owners, someone may have once said.  No, I'm thinking vented or sealed, big as needed with very powerful class D amp.  There's many great subs out there that would be quite satisfactory, performance-wise.  But they don't look the part.  They need to look like Klipsch Heritage.  Klipsch could do it so easily, I would think...and I have zero experience in the audio industry, so I should know!

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As an owner of a 1502 subwoofer I will say it does sound amazing and the tone is correct - not muddy like others I have tried. Jubilees and the 1502 are a perfect match and my wife loves the way it sounds as well. Not sure what the “market” wants but that’s okay as I already have one and love it.

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1 hour ago, Ole Dollar said:

As an owner of a 1502 subwoofer I will say it does sound amazing and the tone is correct - not muddy like others I have tried. Jubilees and the 1502 are a perfect match and my wife loves the way it sounds as well. Not sure what the “market” wants but that’s okay as I already have one and love it.

ding ding , we have a winner -----   now that's a Klipsch sub -

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I'm talking home subwoofers.  Key words being "home", as in "designed for".  Not that ugly and enormous 1502 theater thing.  (No offense to any who may have one of those in their home or who perhaps have one they us as a home.)  Other key word: "subwoofer", as in operating below woofer range.  50-60Hz tops, as I don't know of any Heritage speakers that can't function fine down to 60Hz.  If crossovers are done properly, a good sealed or vented sub of sufficient size and power should not muddy up anything, but simply extend bass response right on down to 16-32Hz.

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8 hours ago, RandyH000 said:

ding ding , we have a winner -----   now that's a Klipsch sub -

And it's also vapor ware.

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I have to disagree with the not a home subwoofer comment. The quality of sound and correctness of tone are more than worth the space. Besides I never used the fireplace behind it anyway. And Carl - Vapor never sounded so good. The 1502 just goes beyond all expectations so easily and man when you give it 1500 watts life is really good.

 

I have used the RSW-15 when installing friends home theaters with whatever RF7 version is available and it is very good, just not in the same ballpark as the 1502 - just my opinion. 
 

P.S. WAF on 1502 is high in my home.

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To be fair I do have KSW-15 I purchased in 1998, I believe , and use it with Hersey ones - it works very well and has a line level crossover that keeps lows from the Herseys. I don’t see that feature much anymore.

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28 minutes ago, jdmccall said:

I'm talking home subwoofers.  Key words being "home", as in "designed for".  Not that ugly and enormous 1502 theater thing.  (No offense to any who may have one of those in their home or who perhaps have one they us as a home.)  Other key word: "subwoofer", as in operating below woofer range.  50-60Hz tops, as I don't know of any Heritage speakers that can't function fine down to 60Hz.  If crossovers are done properly, a good sealed or vented sub of sufficient size and power should not muddy up anything, but simply extend bass response right on down to 16-32Hz.

Put a paper bag over it...

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8 hours ago, codewritinfool said:

I know that everyone draws a line where they say the loudspeakers are "too big", and this is probably strongly influenced by the size of the listening room and where they can put the loudspeakers due to things like windows (those that have to be avoided because the window size is too large), doorways, fireplaces, and perhaps other large pieces of furniture that they believe they can't part with in the listening room.  For me and my 15.5x40x9 (feet) listening space, that size limit is reached before I get to MWM bass bins and especially 1802s--these are really big boxes.  Even the 1502 is pretty massive, and having the ability to have at least two subwoofers in room for increased coverage below the Schroeder frequency (transition to sparse mode region) of the listening room.

 

863013985_Jubswith1502subwoofer.jpg.6056facf0b084ce17b4417cfda78ed8e.jpg

                                      Shortened down Jubilees with a KPT-1502 subwoofer

 

For my needs, the Jubilees are just about the right size (a little too tall if the K-402s are still fully resting on top of the bass bin and not shortened down--like that shown above) and the TH-SPUD clones (the original design was meant for home use only) behind them fit in just right behind them, forming a backstop on the front wall such that I don't have to stiffen the drywall itself.  This actually forms an extension between of the subwoofer horn length via the back of the Jubilee bass bins and the front of the sub, with a small portion of the sidewall exposed that I stiffened with OSB (waferboard) inserts to reduce wall flex.  This works extremely well.  I recommend the TH subs (a patented design by DSL).  These retain the performance of horn-loaded subwoofers, but are much smaller than traditional front-loaded horns.

 

IMG_1334.jpg.dd497b56fcaaf3b067af3af953fac1d2.jpg

                                                            A Jubilee (full height) in front of a TH SPUD subwoofer

 

The smaller subs that Klipsch produces are wayyy too small for Heritage use (IMO) and are direct radiating subs to boot--meaning that you get all the modulation distortion, compression/thermal distortion, and group delay distortion that direct radiating subs create (unless using one that is quite large--with driver area equal the mouth area of the two Khorn bass bin mouths).  So you're forced to go to another brand (like Danley, shown above) to get a compact horn-loaded sub for home use.  There is also a larger TH sub for home use put out by Danley (DTS-10), but I've found that two SPUDs are big enough, and are able to be positioned to fill in the room mode "anti-nodes" in deep bass coverage.

 

With Khorns, you've got an extra problem--in that those Khorns (without enclosed backs) have to seal against the corner because they are playing all the way up to 400+ Hz.  Even if you enclose the backs, the quarter wavelength rule yields a value of 0.7 feet (8.5 inches) where enclosed back Khorns begin to lose boundary gain at 400 Hz. 

 

Without effectively corner boundary gain with either the 1502 or 1802, you lose about the entire bottom octave of the subwoofer (~15-30 Hz).  They need to be within 1/4 wavelength at the frequency at which they would roll off without the room corner, i.e., quarter space loading only.  For a 30 Hz quarter space or half space roll-off frequency, that's ~9.4 feet from the subwoofer horn mouth(s) to their respective room corners.  Below that frequency point, the sub is effectively within coupling distance to the room corners, and couples to both room corners as if it is in both corners (with a little resulting loss due to not actually being in the corners). 

 

Chris

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5 minutes ago, Ole Dollar said:

Sent you a DM.

Thanks.  I really think at the price point there would be competition, but still think the footprint would be a "no-deal" for most folks.

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This may sound a little crazy but the longer I have had it the less prominent it gets. Plus my wife is fairly tolerant of my audio habit. I am excited to hear more about the diamond jubilees to see what is different - I am no longer searching for a better speakers system - mine is in a 2.1 setup for audio only. I do have a reference series home theater setup for video.

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