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Klipsch Missing Boat w/o "Heritage Subs?


jdmccall

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22 minutes ago, Ceptorman said:

Does it even need to be a folded horn design? Most of the Heritage lineup isn't, so make this new sub match in appearance, but would it sell? Will  Khorn and LS owners even consider this? 

 

I think that Klipschorn and La Scala owners would reject a direct radiator. Cornwall, Chorus, and Heresy owners might be fine with the idea.

 

EDIT: Forgot Belle. Same category as Klipschorn and La Scala owners.

Edited by Edgar
Added Belle
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3 minutes ago, Edgar said:

 

I think that Klipschorn and La Scala owners would reject a direct radiator. Cornwall, Chorus, and Heresy owners might be fine with the idea.

 

EDIT: Forgot Belle. Same category as Klipschorn and La Scala owners.

Correct, I doubt many Khorn, LS, or Belle owners would buy a DR sub. So should they market towards the extended Heritage line? Would their current sub work then, and dress it up like a Heritage? 

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10 minutes ago, Ceptorman said:

Don't they already make this, KPT 884? Would this work and finish it in Heritage style?

 

I designed my concept specifically to be the same size as a Cornwall IV, though a "Heritage-Inspired" subwoofer wouldn't have to be. I put the rendering up here to do exactly what it did: elicit conversation.

 

Cornwall IV is 38"x25.3"x15.5". KPT 884 is 49.75"x35.75"x22.5"; 2.685x the volume of the Cornwall.

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On 10/21/2020 at 11:47 AM, jdmccall said:

Yeah, I know PWK never designed and sold a sub for mating with k-horn, la scala, belle, cornwall, heresy, etc., but...  Klipsch now sells lots of products under the "Heritage" banner that were not around when PWK was.  So, why in the name of all that's right and good, does klipsch not design, build and market a high-quality sub (or three) to go with the huge installed base of heritage speakers that have been sold all over the world?  Make grille styles and cabinet finishes optional to match different era's of Heritage speakers.  Don't be too greedy on pricing and they will sell faster than Hope can build!

 

Thoughts?

Think I want to take a stab at this. The upshot of it all is we are still waiting, at least I am, on word about the Beast and or other that may be in planning.

It would be truly nice to have one that fits or meets your requirements/description. Since there apparently are not(?) one must improvise if more or lower bass is required.

One think you mentioned is a swarm approach. The 8 inch model or similar shone by @Willard MillerMillerMillerMiMillerMilleMillerMillerMill

@willland earlier in this thread or others like it can do the job in a home setting albeit DR can they not?

You can hide them, present them, or just place where they are not a trip object. The ones have owned a couple of, did the job, think were the Klipsch SW8 or

close. Old school, nothing like today. May not be folded but, certainly a space saver.

Sometimes, I am finding out still, we cannot get what we want.

As for the names of more recent products using "Heritage" in their description, has more to do with their retro looks than what their purpose actually is. Years from now, will possibly be calling all from the present era heritage.

Qustion rhetoric...

No offense and thanks.

 

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If your requirement for cutoff frequency is significantly above 20 Hz, then a Table Tuba-sized folded horn works well.  One of the requirements for my subs is that they have one full octave of pass band below the Jubilee bass bins. (I figured it wasn't worth the hassle if they couldn't do that.)

 

My Jubs have a -3 dB cutoff at 31 Hz (same as Khorns), so the sub needed a -3 dB cutoff at or below 15.5 Hz. The TH-SPUD clones actually do 14.3 Hz in-room (in full corners with the bass bin height extension and stiffened side walls, and nominal crossover frequency with the Jubs at 40 Hz...

 

914810222_RightSPUDsub24May2017.jpg.6fdc7c5949d21bf866c2fb0ccb40c1e8.jpg

 

I also had a requirement that they could approximately match the Jub bass bins in terms of distortion levels and freedom from thermal compression issues--so they needed to be horn-loaded.  The SPUD internal path length is ~21 feet (folded centerline length).  The harmonic distortion (mostly third harmonic) actually is significantly lower below 30 Hz than 40 Hz, so I set my AVP crossover frequency to 40 Hz--as low as it will go. 

 

The TH-SPUD clones cost me about $550 for two of them 12 years ago (materials cost--including four Tang Band woofers), and their form factor fits perfectly behind each Jub as an extension to the bass bins.  The plan view drawing is online at diyAudio.  They are easier than a Table Tuba to build, it appears.

 

IMG_1334.jpg

 

Chris

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27 minutes ago, Chris A said:

The TH-SPUD clones actually do 14.3 Hz in-room (in full corners with the bass bin height extension and stiffened side walls, and nominal crossover frequency with the Jubs at 40 Hz...

 

The SPUD is quite an extraordinary design. It's still larger than anything that I could fit into my room, but its performance is phenomenal. 

 

I have found that I do not perceive tones below about 25 Hz, and since I don't use my system for special effects (motion pictures), I really wouldn't need anything near 14.3 Hz. So something that was clean and flat, starting at 20-25 Hz and extending an octave or so above that, would be my goal.

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27 minutes ago, Edgar said:

I have found that I do not perceive tones below about 25 Hz...

I think this is true for all people (unless they have really big ear drums and long ear canals--like an elephant's 🐘 ). 

 

Where they really add to the religious experience is on Bach (and other famous organ composer)  pipe organ recordings--the ones where the organist uses the 16' or even a 32' stop.  With the depth of the room, you can actually sense in some 5.1 recordings the sound of the deepest notes sweeping back and forth over you from the front to the back of the room (I've got 40 feet of room depth to add to the effect) like beating frequencies between two close-frequency  tones being played together. 

 

It transports me back to my childhood listening to my mother playing Bach preludes and fugues at Ed Landreth Hall at TCU.  I used to think this was something you could only hear in a large church/cathedral.  I was pleasantly surprised when it occurred after I got everything dialed in and put on a disc that demonstrated the effect...

 

2003-09-17_Goose_bumps.jpg

 

Chris

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On 10/23/2020 at 1:09 PM, dtel said:

for LaScala and Khorn a true sub for them would need to be a horn

Not necessarily, Bag End did some interesting stuff with their 18" ELF sub series back in the day.  I helped install 4 dual 18" cabinets in a dance club (total of 8 18" woofers in about a 16,000sqft area) with the ELF processor and powered by 4 Crown Macrotech 2400's and holy cow!  After we had a decent break in period we went back to reset the levels and played around to see just how much it could do, and it was to the point where it hit so hard it made you feel not quite right!   The low end was just crazy clean and surprisingly flat due to the ELF processor.  I haven't followed what they are doing with this lately, but the idea was a step in the right direction.

 

(Now, I know distortion is harder to hear at very low frequencies, but you can tell a decent signal from a distorted one by using the things on either side of your head!)

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 10/26/2020 at 6:27 PM, Iteachstem said:

Not necessarily, Bag End did some interesting stuff with their 18" ELF sub series back in the day.  I helped install 4 dual 18" cabinets in a dance club (total of 8 18" woofers in about a 16,000sqft area) with the ELF processor and powered by 4 Crown Macrotech 2400's and holy cow!  After we had a decent break in period we went back to reset the levels and played around to see just how much it could do, and it was to the point where it hit so hard it made you feel not quite right!   The low end was just crazy clean and surprisingly flat due to the ELF processor.  I haven't followed what they are doing with this lately, but the idea was a step in the right direction.

Seems like with all that hardware including processor and amplifiers needed for this solution you could use 2 1802 subwoofers and 2 Macrotech 2400’s and have better sound in a the same or smaller package that requires less power to run.

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