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mopardave

Cornscala horn question

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36 minutes ago, CECAA850 said:

Have you made sure that the ohm rating on the new drivers is the same as the stock drivers?

The stock drivers were K57 and i think those are 16ohm. I checked my DE85 drivers and they measure 6ohm although they are listed as 8.

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14 minutes ago, CECAA850 said:

Have you played one speaker at a time to absolutely rule out a phase issue between the 2 speakers?

I have not, but they both sound very laid back at low and mid volume. I can make them sound good if i run them at 100db, but it takes a lot of power to do so, about 1/2 turn on the volume knob.  This EL34 amp is a power house and does not take much volume to make any heritage speaker loud.  

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18 hours ago, jwgorman said:

I’m using the 3015lf_4 crossed at 500, and the zxpc 18x10 horn with a Faital ProHF146 with -12db attenuation courtesy of a 3636 autoformer with 1.2uf In front of the AF and 3.0mh in parallel with the driver. I get all the in-your-face mid presentation of my CWIIs only much more refined. I believe the speaks that avatar was selling were 4 ohms, going from memory.  I’ve not used that compression driver before but you could experiment with an lpad and see if it’s a level thing.  

Yes i have the 3015lf-4 woofer.

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51 minutes ago, mopardave said:

The stock drivers were K57 and i think those are 16ohm. I checked my DE85 drivers and they measure 6ohm although they are listed as 8.

Others may chime in but that may very well be your problem.

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1 hour ago, mopardave said:

The stock drivers were K57 and i think those are 16ohm. I checked my DE85 drivers and they measure 6ohm although they are listed as 8.

 

If you halve the impedance the crossover was designed for you double the crossover point, I think...

 

You have lost your midrange.

 

That WOULD be pretty laid back.

 

You made a Bose-Scala, LOL!

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1 hour ago, mopardave said:

Yes i have the 3015lf-4 woofer.

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Who did the grills?

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3 hours ago, geoff. said:

 

If you halve the impedance the crossover was designed for you double the crossover point, I think...

 

You have lost your midrange.

 

That WOULD be pretty laid back.

 

You made a Bose-Scala, LOL!

You'd have less output from the driver regardless of crossover point also wouldn't you?

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Those are super cool. And as others have mentioned, if you had a 16ohm mid and went to an 8 ohm you’ll need a cap and coil change on your crossover and a different autoformer setting. Those speakers should be stellar. 

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Crossover and the amount of attenuation is the problem. Use this software and see what you should be using. The crossovers for Klipsch speakers being sold are for specific drivers and speakers with a set ohm rating. You should be waking the neighbors a few doors down if you wanted to. 

 

https://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/

 

 

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6 hours ago, geoff. said:

 

If you halve the impedance the crossover was designed for you double the crossover point, I think...

 

You have lost your midrange.

 

That WOULD be pretty laid back.

 

You made a Bose-Scala, LOL!

The cross over was designed for my current drivers.   I build these 20 years ago as vertical cornwalls.  Now cornscala.

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1 hour ago, henry4841 said:

Crossover and the amount of attenuation is the problem. Use this software and see what you should be using. The crossovers for Klipsch speakers being sold are for specific drivers and speakers with a set ohm rating. You should be waking the neighbors a few doors down if you wanted to. 

 

https://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/

 

 

Just to be clear the crossovers are the ALK universals CSW custom build for these speaker components.  I could wake the neighbors 2 blocks over, but it would take a big twist of the volume knob to do it.  

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4 hours ago, mopardave said:

Just to be clear the crossovers are the ALK universals CSW custom build for these speaker components.  I could wake the neighbors 2 blocks over, but it would take a big twist of the volume knob to do it.  

Dave ----  these crossovers and speaker components were running into Cornwall Verticals with no issues ( with the K33 woofers )   ,  so the problem is either the  amp being  not powerful enough to drive the new woofers  , or  the new woofers or a wiring issue -

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3 hours ago, mopardave said:

Just to be clear the crossovers are the ALK universals CSW custom build for these speaker components.  I could wake the neighbors 2 blocks over, but it would take a big twist of the volume knob to do it.  

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If you start a speaker build with high efficient components and end up with a low efficient system where you have to turn the volume way past where you are accustomed to I would look at the crossover no matter who it was sold by or who designed it. Just saying. I would not start swapping components trying to make them work with the crossover but the other way around. 

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4 hours ago, RandyH000 said:

Dave ----  these crossovers and speaker components were running into Cornwall Verticals with no issues ( with the K33 woofers )   ,  so the problem is either the  amp being  not powerful enough to drive the new woofers  , or  the new woofers or a wiring issue -

No, the cornwalls has k77 k57 and k33 with a b crossover.   All components are new to this cabinet.

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Just to clarify, the ALK CSW crossover you are using now is NOT an “off the shelf” unit? The stock unit would be for a 16 ohm mid.

 

Yours was designed and built specifically for an 8 ohm squawker?

 

If not, you are crossing the woofer at over 1000 hz, and would have a hole in the response. I don’t know about a 25 db hole, but it would be significantly quieter. And lacking everything Klipsch about it.

 

Having said that, I did experience a similar presentation with my Cornscala builds. Far more neutral, detailed and present, but missing the bite of a Cornwall. Not unlike a Chorus 2.

 

It is almost as if an exponential mid-horn is a requirement for “in your face” sound.

 

You also say your mids are adjusted 11 db down?

 

I think I read in another post mids 5 db above the LF section gives good results. So if your woofer is maybe 98 db and your mid is 108, you could try only 5 or 6 db of attenuation on the mids. If the crossover was in fact designed for an 8 ohm squawker. 

 

I also found that, all things being equal, the large tractrix “type” horns have a “kinder, gentler, machine-gun hand”, they are not as forward as what we have come to expect from a Cornwall, or a Heresy.

 

I am following this thread pretty close now. That mid horn in your build, actually all the components in your build, should yield some pretty spectacular results once you get it dialed in!

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1 hour ago, geoff. said:

Just to clarify, the ALK CSW crossover you are using now is NOT an “off the shelf” unit? The stock unit would be for a 16 ohm mid.

 

Yours was designed and built specifically for an 8 ohm squawker?

 

If not, you are crossing the woofer at over 1000 hz, and would have a hole in the response. I don’t know about a 25 db hole, but it would be significantly quieter. And lacking everything Klipsch about it.

 

Having said that, I did experience a similar presentation with my Cornscala builds. Far more neutral, detailed and present, but missing the bite of a Cornwall. Not unlike a Chorus 2.

 

It is almost as if an exponential mid-horn is a requirement for “in your face” sound.

 

You also say your mids are adjusted 11 db down?

 

I think I read in another post mids 5 db above the LF section gives good results. So if your woofer is maybe 98 db and your mid is 108, you could try only 5 or 6 db of attenuation on the mids. If the crossover was in fact designed for an 8 ohm squawker. 

 

I also found that, all things being equal, the large tractrix “type” horns have a “kinder, gentler, machine-gun hand”, they are not as forward as what we have come to expect from a Cornwall, or a Heresy.

 

I am following this thread pretty close now. That mid horn in your build, actually all the components in your build, should yield some pretty spectacular results once you get it dialed in!

Yes Al built these to my component specs. Yes, attenuated at 11 right now. 9 thru 12 sounded good to my ear, but just too laid back at low and mid volume.   I think the woofer SPL is 96 for the 4 ohm version.   

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I bought 1 3015lf-4 from Parts Express and 1 3015lf-4 from Avatar, They looked and felt identical except for the lack of lettering on the Avatar. I replaced the Eminence 15C's in my 73 Cornwall with Crites B2 x. My Cornwalls have a lot more bass. I don't hear any difference between the 3015lf

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3 hours ago, GeorgeK said:

I bought 1 3015lf-4 from Parts Express and 1 3015lf-4 from Avatar, They looked and felt identical except for the lack of lettering on the Avatar. I replaced the Eminence 15C's in my 73 Cornwall with Crites B2 x. My Cornwalls have a lot more bass. I don't hear any difference between the 3015lf

I'm happy to hear that.   It's looking like the laid back mid horn and the crossover.   Might have to have Dean build me some.

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