Zen Traveler Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 1 minute ago, RandyH000 said: 6 minutes ago, NBPK402 said: Interesting...when I was in the USAF... They said they you until you seperate from the military. ---You're very right , we had no say , we'd end up in the stockade under MP Escort , if we refused , but today things have changed -- I can't imagine it won't be compulsory because the military can't afford an outbreak (again). 2 minutes ago, NBPK402 said: if you get Phizer this year and n3xt year they say you need a booster and Pfizer is not available for you...do you get Moderna? No but you may have found the answer. They are waiting to get a standard policy on what shot to get. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted April 12, 2021 Moderators Share Posted April 12, 2021 4 hours ago, jimjimbo said: So you're saying that those of us who have had or are getting vaccines are lemmings? No doubt you jumped off the bridge last fall. Too bad. Not going to have personal banter here, if you are hitting reply and have "you" in your response you had better check it at least 3x. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 5 minutes ago, NBPK402 said: Now here is a question... if you get Phizer this year and next year they say you need a booster and Pfizer is not available for you...do you get Moderna? Possible problems with using a different vaccine? I think once you get the Pfizer , there are obliged to give you the 3rd shot based on your vaccination record -- 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted April 12, 2021 Moderators Share Posted April 12, 2021 3 hours ago, CECAA850 said: Hadnt jumped yet like you and everyone else. What happened last fall? I hope you have no issues with your shot(s). He's referring to the election obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted April 12, 2021 Moderators Share Posted April 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said: I can't imagine it won't be compulsory because the military can't afford an outbreak (again). This was discussed last week, DoD says it's voluntary until full FDA approval, at which time they will re-evaluate. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted April 12, 2021 Moderators Share Posted April 12, 2021 8 minutes ago, NBPK402 said: Wow...now you have a right to choose in the military! Until there is full approval. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 1 hour ago, NBPK402 said: Wow...now you have a right to choose in the military! EDIT ---Today's Military have temporary Rights to abstain from Covid 19 Vaccines - we never went into Combat unless we were fully vaccinated , our Medical Officers would not sign off - 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted April 12, 2021 Moderators Share Posted April 12, 2021 4 hours ago, tube fanatic said: Do a search and you will find many highly credentialed docs and scientists who disagree with the mainstream view. Unfortunately, they have been branded as “quacks” and the self appointed social media arbiters have declared their work as being unfit for dissemination to the public. You know as well as I that only certain viewpoints are being permitted. Maynard As I said before, you or anyone else can post or link to any study, whether it's mainstream, contrary or otherwise. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 BTW, watched Dr. Fauci interview. He said it is conceivable on boosters. Thanks! Conceivable is not a foregone conclusion. Once again, we shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted April 12, 2021 Moderators Share Posted April 12, 2021 33 minutes ago, RandyH000 said: Today's Military have temporary Rights to abstain from Vaccines - we never went into Combat unless we were fully vaccinated , our Medical Officers would not sign off - Since when? I know it is for Covid-19 because it's under a emergency use authorization, but I think all of the standard ones are all required for basic or officer training. It is totally voluntary, and they are told it is voluntary. For the usual vaccinations, they are not voluntary, but there has always been a medical or administrative exemption. For example, if you had an allergic reaction to a previous vaccine they have to review that carefully and extensively. I remember being asked if any previous reactions, and if I was allergic to certain things like eggs, etc. . If you had a previous reaction or relevant algery, you were sent to specialist and evaluated. On Admin/Religious Exemptions, for that you had to state religious grounds, that got you an audience with the base commander and then a meeting with medical staff. Children who use DoD sponsored schools or day care are required to be immunized unless based on valid religious grounds or medically contraindicated. If a vaccine was declared "mandatory" for a field of operation (I don't think there are many currently) the only exemption is medical. If you refuse, the commander has to advise you orally and in writing that if you refuse they can force you to get it. After the warning and a refusal they would probably prosecute you for willful failure to follow a legal order under the UCMJ. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 32 minutes ago, dwilawyer said: I know it is for Covid-19 Travis , You are correct , by vaccines , I meant -the various Covid 19 vaccines -I edited my initial reply to clarify -Tx 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 1 hour ago, dwilawyer said: This was discussed last week, DoD says it's voluntary until full FDA approval, at which time they will re-evaluate. I remember that. 1 hour ago, Zen Traveler said: 1 hour ago, NBPK402 said: if you get Phizer this year and n3xt year they say you need a booster and Pfizer is not available for you...do you get Moderna? No but you may have found the answer. They are waiting to get a standard policy on what shot to get. Since the vaccines aren't mix-n-match my guess is they are going to settle on one vaccine once approved by FDA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 2 hours ago, dwilawyer said: He's referring to the election obviously. You think so? Actually I was referencing the end of daylight savings time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted April 12, 2021 Author Share Posted April 12, 2021 10 hours ago, dwilawyer said: He's referring to the election obviously. I should have known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 1 minute ago, CECAA850 said: I should have known. Good morning coffee? Have a great week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted April 12, 2021 Author Share Posted April 12, 2021 1 hour ago, billybob said: Good morning coffee? Have a great week! Had my coffee. Should be back on my game. You have a good week too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam S. Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 18 hours ago, Zen Traveler said: Otoh, the vaccines have been shown to be safe in the tests conducted which do take long-term risk factors into consideration. There's absolutely no data available to support that notion or claim. If you have some, please submit it. No clinical trial to date on these vaccines, which have been in use in humans for less than a year, can predict what the long term effects or risk factors could be. I'm not saying that there will be higher incidence of this or that with vaccinated v.s. un-vaccinated individuals, but the reality is that any potential long term effects are unknown at this time. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Trey Cannon Posted April 12, 2021 Klipsch Employees Share Posted April 12, 2021 11 minutes ago, Sam S. said: There's absolutely no data available to support that notion or claim. If you have some, please submit it. No clinical trial to date on these vaccines, which have been in use in humans for less than a year, can predict what the long term effects or risk factors could be. I'm not saying that there will be higher incidence of this or that with vaccinated v.s. un-vaccinated individuals, but the reality is that any potential long term effects are unknown at this time. ...Which is just 1 of the many points that will keep us from being a lab rat....NO WAY for us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam S. Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 18 hours ago, Zen Traveler said: It seems we are back to the Safety vs Advocacy situation in regards to the vaccine and I wonder who the most prominent expert/citizen who isn't getting the vaccine is? Former POTUSAs, leading scientists, business and societal leaders, etc seem to be in agreement that it's the thing to do. {EDIT: I keep bringing this up because although some are reluctant here, there doesn't seem to be ANYONE in the public sphere that has credibility saying the vaccine is worse than getting Covid-19} Aside from the obvious response of whether or not someone should make a health decision based on what "POTUSAs, leading scientists [not sure what qualifies as "leading", I'm sure someone gets to decide who is and isn't based on their conclusion] business and societal leaders, etc", there are numerous examples of individuals in these groups that have expressed doubts or concerns about the vaccines. Some of it is suppressed in the media because it's off message (vaccine good, you take, you don't take you conspiracy theorist nutjob). Others, widely reported. Healthcare workers Politicians The debate or decision isn't simply "COVID v.s. Vaccine", you are making the vaccine decision based on the risk of COVID and other factors, which might include your age, health, pre-existing conditions, etc. Sort of like Russian Roulette, dangerous? Yes. Harmful? Maybe not - only in 20 some % of people that play it. Your argument (at least this one) is a classic "appeal to authority" (logically fallacious). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 13 minutes ago, Sam S. said: 18 hours ago, Zen Traveler said: Otoh, the vaccines have been shown to be safe in the tests conducted which do take long-term risk factors into consideration. There's absolutely no data available to support that notion or claim. If you have some, please submit it. Feature Article: Long-term Side Effects of COVID-19 Vaccine? What We Know. | Children's Hospital of Philadelphia (chop.edu) Even with this history in mind, some reasonably wonder about the mRNA vaccines because they have not previously been approved for use in people. But here, too, we can be confident in what we know: Although COVID-19 mRNA vaccines are new, this type of vaccine has been studied in people before. mRNA vaccines against HIV, rabies, Zika and flu have been tested in phase 1 and phase 2 trials in people. The technology has also been used in clinical trials as a way to treat some cancers. Even though these products have not been licensed for use in people, these efforts provided important information about mRNA technology and its safety. mRNA is made and used in protein production in all cells of our bodies. As such, cells have mechanisms in place to ensure that no protein is made in quantities greater than needed. One way this happens is that mRNA has a “poly(A) tail.” In the cytoplasm, this tail ensures mRNA decay. As the mRNA is used to make proteins in the cell, the length of the poly(A) tail decreases, until it is too short for the mRNA to continue being used as a protein blueprint. Once this happens, the mRNA breaks down and is removed as cellular debris. This process limits how long mRNA remains in the cytoplasm — and, therefore, how much protein is produced. As such, poly(A) tails ensure that the cell breaks down the vaccine mRNA in a timely manner. Likewise, this understanding allows scientists to design vaccine-delivered mRNA in a way that ensures it does not stay in the cell longer than needed to generate immunity. Because of the knowledge gained with other vaccines, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) required companies making COVID-19 vaccines to follow trial participants for a minimum of eight weeks before they could submit their data for approval. Likewise, the participants in the mRNA vaccine trials continue to be followed even though the vaccines have been approved for use. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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