Corona Virus Disease/(SARS-CoV-2) II

[Bosco-d-gama]

40 minutes ago, richieb said:

So today is the funeral for my friend who passed from COVID. I was shocked they were having a “gathering” read funeral for someone who just died from a virus that feeds from close contact situations. Which leaves the unenviable decision on whether to attend, or not.

 We believe our best option is to attend the preceding visitation, arrive earlier than announced, pay our respects and leave. Ten, fifteen minutes tops. Of course masked at all times. Even this has me uneasy but what’s the difference in grocery or Costco shopping a couple times a month? Although I don’t feel the family made a sound decision here. 

The difference is that this will be a gathering of people’s you know we’re somehow exposed to covid19 and you have no idea where any of them maybe insofar as being infectious. Did they say anything about covid19 screening? Certainly keep your distance and mask up. It is a very sad predicament. 

[BigStewMan]

6 hours ago, richieb said:

So today is the funeral for my friend who passed from COVID. I was shocked they were having a “gathering” read funeral for someone who just died from a virus that feeds from close contact situations. Which leaves the unenviable decision on whether to attend, or not.

 We believe our best option is to attend the preceding visitation, arrive earlier than announced, pay our respects and leave. Ten, fifteen minutes tops. Of course masked at all times. Even this has me uneasy but what’s the difference in grocery or Costco shopping a couple times a month? Although I don’t feel the family made a sound decision here. 

sorry you lost your friend and also sorry you are in this position. I personally would not go -- respect for the deceased doesn't have to include standing there looking at their body. I heard it said once that funerals are for the living, and the living should understand these unfortunate circumstances.  I would hope that my family would understand that my desire would be that my family and friends NOT be put at risk just to say goodbye to me -- because I won't be at my own funeral anyway. 

I don't think skipping the funeral/viewing makes you a horrible person; but if you feel compelled to go, please take a ridiculous amount of precautions as some of those in attendance may have been around your friend before his passing. 

Peace Man. 

[CECAA850]

47 minutes ago, BigStewMan said:

I personally would not go -- respect for the deceased doesn't have to include standing there looking at their body. I heard it said once that funerals are for the living, and the living should understand these unfortunate circumstances.  I would hope that my family would understand that my desire would be that my family and friends NOT be put at risk just to say goodbye to me -- because I won't be at my own funeral anyway. 

I don't think skipping the funeral/viewing makes you a horrible person; but if you feel compelled to go, please take a ridiculous amount of precautions as some of those in attendance may have been around your friend before his passing.

Agree 100%.

 

 

[richieb]

So we went, stayed about twenty minutes in the church foyer during visitation, never intended nor did we enter the chapel for the viewing. Saw a few old work mates, no touching/shaking hands, his brother broke down when he saw us moving toward him, as did I. He understood our short stay and appreciated the gesture.

[Jeff Matthews]

 

Quote

Shortly after the first wave of vaccines went out, however, distribution hit bumps. More than a dozen states found they'd be receiving significantly fewer doses than anticipated—half or less of the expected volume—in the second week of vaccine distribution. States, naturally, asked the feds, and HHS's Azar identified the "core issue" as "Pfizer's ability to manufacture" vaccine fast enough around "production challenges."

 

However, Pfizer in a statement pointed a finger squarely at the US federal government for the snafu.

 

"Pfizer is not having any production issues with our COVID-19 vaccine, and no shipments containing the vaccine are on hold or delayed," the company said on December 17. "This week, we successfully shipped all 2.9 million doses that we were asked to ship by the U.S. Government to the locations specified by them. We have millions more doses sitting in our warehouse but, as of now, we have not received any shipment instructions for additional doses."

Source

[billybob]

The gov here has been jumping phizers bones. 

Think he knows the real story.

[Zen Traveler]

1 hour ago, billybob said:

The gov here has been jumping phizers bones. 

Think he knows the real story.

Who is your Governor?

[billybob]

1 hour ago, Zen Traveler said:

Who is your Governor?

A gentleman DeSantos...

 Pretty fair gov. Not the best on 

health but wanting to vaccinate elderly, institutionalized and not first for most part. 

OT

 

 

[Travis In Austin]

On 12/22/2020 at 2:16 PM, billybob said:

Can't you just see the hogwrestle that would be...

What are you going to do use a dartgun...

It's pretty simple.. They would have a Certificate of Vaccination like they do for all other types of vaccinations. They would start by requiring the certification for Drivers' Licenses, TSA checks screening, and school enrollment (every Texas college requires proof of meningitis vaccination for example) and it would go out from there if it needed to. 

 

To drive, fly or go to school, you would have to submit proof of vaccination. Next would be, if you want to work, have to have a certificate in by a certain date, just like the two forms of id for an I-9. Then Social Security checks would require Certificate by a certain date if you want to continue to get them. About 60 to 70% will get it when it is available, if that isn't achieving herd immunity, they will start to implement certificates being required for certain things, and/or, they will require schools to do it (as one example) if they want to continue receiving federal funds. 

 

The most significant thing about the new strain with a much higher R Zero, is that a higher percentage of people either have to have the antibodies (from exposure) or the vaccination. If they can get to herd immunity with the percentage that voluntarily receive it they won't have to look at alternatives to "encourage" people to get vaccinated.

 

 

[billybob]

Just now, dwilawyer said:

It's pretty simple.. They would have a Certificate of Vaccination like they do for all other types of vaccinations. They would start by requiring the certification for Drivers' Licenses, TSA checks screening, and school enrollment (every Texas college requires proof of meningitis vaccination for example) and it would go out from there if it needed to. 

 

To drive, fly or go to school, you would have to submit proof of vaccination. Next would be, if you want to work, have to have a certificate in by a certain date, just like the two forms of id for an I-9. Then Social Security checks would require Certificate by a certain date if you want to continue to get them. About 60 to 70% will get it when it is available, if that isn't achieving herd immunity, they will start to implement certificates being required for certain things, and/or, they will require schools to do it (as one example) if they want to continue receiving federal funds. 

 

The most significant thing about the new strain with a much higher R Zero, is that a higher percentage of people either have to have the antibodies (from exposure) or the vaccination. If they can get to herd immunity with the percentage that voluntarily receive it they won't have to look at alternatives to "encourage" people to get vaccinated.

 

 

Think that 60-70 should help tremendously. That's why also supposing thst a mandatory were imposed, not likely but, maybe.

Starting point being from having read today, more than one way besides the paper you receive, alternative digital method of registering within HIPPA standard.

Makes sense for passport, as mentioned. Example being the obvious now with Britain and the 

Euro travel backlog between borders.

 

 

[tube fanatic]

8 hours ago, dwilawyer said:

It's pretty simple.. They would have a Certificate of Vaccination like they do for all other types of vaccinations. They would start by requiring the certification for Drivers' Licenses, TSA checks screening, and school enrollment (every Texas college requires proof of meningitis vaccination for example) and it would go out from there if it needed to. 

 

To drive, fly or go to school, you would have to submit proof of vaccination. Next would be, if you want to work, have to have a certificate in by a certain date, just like the two forms of id for an I-9. Then Social Security checks would require Certificate by a certain date if you want to continue to get them. About 60 to 70% will get it when it is available, if that isn't achieving herd immunity, they will start to implement certificates being required for certain things, and/or, they will require schools to do it (as one example) if they want to continue receiving federal funds. 

 

The most significant thing about the new strain with a much higher R Zero, is that a higher percentage of people either have to have the antibodies (from exposure) or the vaccination. If they can get to herd immunity with the percentage that voluntarily receive it they won't have to look at alternatives to "encourage" people to get vaccinated.

 

 

Cutting off SS (or food stamps as some have proposed) from those who refuse vaccination will kill more than the virus.  Using the Jacobson smallpox vaccine case from 1905 as the basis for such strong arm tactics is ludicrous imo given that COVID is killing 0.2% to 0.6% of those infected.  Smallpox in 1905 killed 30%.  A mandate from private industry is one thing, but government doing it is going to be unacceptable to many.

 

 

Maynard

[henry4841]

15 hours ago, richieb said:

So we went, stayed about twenty minutes in the church foyer during visitation, never intended nor did we enter the chapel for the viewing. Saw a few old work mates, no touching/shaking hands, his brother broke down when he saw us moving toward him, as did I. He understood our short stay and appreciated the gesture.

I think you will be safe. I visited my brother after surgery, wore a mask inside his house and sat close to him, and a day or two later he came down with covid. Not unexpected on my part because a hospital is the breeding ground for the virus. I suffered no consequence's by playing it safe. Used sanitizer after entering my car as well. I knew it was a risk but we cannot live in a bubble forever. Just take precautions and stay safe. Most have to get out everyday to earn a living so I am thankful to be able to stay in as much as possible being old and not in the best of health but life must go on. My brother is 69 with bad heart but recovered in a few days. Really no explanation on who dies and who lives. Naturally the older population is more subject to die but that is the case with any virus. 

[billybob]

Don't think it will come to any silly tough love treatment. People just talk jive sometimes as nothing else occupies.

Merry Christmas!

[Bosco-d-gama]

5 hours ago, tube fanatic said:

Cutting off SS (or food stamps as some have proposed) from those who refuse vaccination will kill more than the virus.  Using the Jacobson smallpox vaccine case from 1905 as the basis for such strong arm tactics is ludicrous imo given that COVID is killing 0.2% to 0.6% of those infected.  Smallpox in 1905 killed 30%.  A mandate from private industry is one thing, but government doing it is going to be unacceptable to many.

 

 

Maynard

Maynard....   you’re not considering how much medicine and high tech medical care is required to keep the covid19 mortality statistics low. We do see where covid19 can overwhelm major cities and every hospital in those cities. We have the dead and we have many survivors with unknown futures because of how virulent covid19 is to our human bodies. Without any question covid19 needs to be stopped ASAP. Stopped before it infects and kills/injures more and stopped before the virus mutates into something more lethal, more infectious and even harder to manage. Everything the public can do to stop covid19 - the public must do. 

[tube fanatic]

11 minutes ago, Bosco-d-gama said:

Maynard....   you’re not considering how much medicine and high tech medical care is required to keep the covid19 mortality statistics low. We do see where covid19 can overwhelm major cities and every hospital in those cities. We have the dead and we have many survivors with unknown futures because of how virulent covid19 is to our human bodies. Without any question covid19 needs to be stopped ASAP. Stopped before it infects and kills/injures more and stopped before the virus mutates into something more lethal, more infectious and even harder to manage. Everything the public can do to stop covid19 - the public must do. 

I totally agree with you.  However, you need to consider the numbers of people who will die from suicide when their only source of income is cut off.  Look at the stats on drug overdoses (both legal and illegal) since the pandemic began.  How will society deal with the cost of millions more homeless people, or people who can’t afford food, if the government cuts off their income?  The philosophy of “get vaccinated or die” does not seem ethical, especially since there is no data on how long vaccine induced immunity will even last or whether the vaccine will prevent people from contracting the virus or spreading it.  

 

Maynard

[Bosco-d-gama]

2 minutes ago, tube fanatic said:

I totally agree with you.  However, you need to consider the numbers of people who will die from suicide when their only source of income is cut off.  Look at the stats on drug overdoses (both legal and illegal) since the pandemic began.  How will society deal with the cost of millions more homeless people, or people who can’t afford food, if the government cuts off their income?  The philosophy of “get vaccinated or die” does not seem ethical, especially since there is no data on how long vaccine induced immunity will even last or whether the vaccine will prevent people from contracting the virus or spreading it.  

 

Maynard

Au contraire:  The mantra of don’t get vaccinated and allow covid19 to perpetuate is patently insane. Covid19 is costing the world a fortune in monies and miseries. It effects everyone, workers and druggies alike. The least painful solutions are the vaccines, the masks and the hygiene required to control covid19. The worst news I’ve heard lately is that covid19 now resides in the wild mink population. That represents a new repository for the disease and one not easily dealt with. So - yeah - get vaccinated and get your welfare check. How tough is that?

 

[billybob]

People need to recognize speculation over this or that is being said, speculated upon. Time to get real and smell the roses.

All of this is background noise that just keeps those paid to do it in green. Not helpful to the public at large speculating on the future.

Too much rolling stoned.

[tube fanatic]

Bosco, I enjoy arguing with you!  So, you seem to be in favor of cutting off federal and/or state assistance for those who choose not to be vaccinated.  Many share your viewpoint.  In the supermarket I always see people walking around with a mask beneath their nose, as well as some food preparers.  What kind of sanctions would you impose on them?  Travis mentioned using drivers license eligibility as being contingent on furnishing proof of vaccination.  Do you agree with that too?   Will people who have not been vaccinated be required to wear an arm band so they can be avoided?  My whole point is that if a person chooses not to receive the vaccine after being educated with the pros and cons (and, yes, there are cons) that should be the end.  The NYPD and NYFD is not requiring the vaccine.  Should those refusing be fired?  
 

And, Billybob, I have found that when such ideas are put forth by those who have the power to make them a reality, we better watch out.  
 

I won’t be around the rest of the day, so feel free to criticize!  
 

 

Maynard
 

 

[Bosco-d-gama]

18 minutes ago, billybob said:

People need to recognize speculation over this or that is being said, speculated upon. Time to get real and smell the roses.

All of this is background noise that just keeps those paid to do it in green. Not helpful to the public at large speculating on the future.

Too much rolling stoned.

 

Science is not “speculating” about the future. Science has observed the damages caused by covid19. Covid19 infections damage internal organs and our own immune systems damage organs systems while trying to fight off covid19. Otherwise healthy young adults are now crippled because of covid19. There will be long term consequences even if we stopped covid19 in its tracks today. No speculation. These are facts. If you get a nasty staph infection on your arm it will leave your arm scarred for life. The same stuff happens internally.

[billybob]

1 minute ago, Bosco-d-gama said:

26 minutes ago, billybob said:

People need to recognize speculation over this or that is being said, speculated upon. Time to get real and smell the roses.

All of this is background noise that just keeps those paid to do it in green. Not helpful to the public at large speculating on the future.

Too much rolling stoned.

 

Science is not “speculating” about the future. Science has observed the damages caused by covid19. Covid19 infections damage internal organs and our own immune systems damage organs systems while trying to fight off covid19. Otherwise healthy young adults are now crippled because of covid19. There will be long term consequences even if we stopped covid19 in its tracks today. No speculation. These are facts. If you get a nasty staph infection on your arm it will leave your arm scarred for life. The same stuff happens internally.

Agreed! Can't argue with that.

Have been trying to allay talking heads yammering about this and that concerning getting vaccination or not. Remains to be seen no matter how many polls on the subject. I can see 60-70 herd immunity no matter how people responds to a poll. Even more with time and treating people right.

People want a break on threats made just to Yammer on incessantly about the future.

Plans of mice and men often go awry.

Thanks!