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Big 10 Lies of Audio that refuse to die


ClaudeJ1
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19 hours ago, Shakeydeal said:


Azcel has always been a closed minded, loud mouth buffoon. Nothing new to see here.

Now you sound like a typical Democrat Facebook Name Caller when you state only your OPINION vs. being presented with mostly factual statements. But carry on, this thread was meant to stir up the bees' nest and you have the biggest spoon so far.

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On 11/12/2020 at 7:24 AM, Shakeydeal said:

 

I have long known @TonyWhitlow was clueless, but I did give you more credit than that.

 

A vinyl record played back on a high quality rig will almost always sound better than a hi rez digital file. Digital has come a long way and sounds much better than it did in it's infancy, but there will always be something about the sound of a record that digital just can't match. At least for now.

 

And as for tube amps, well "many music lovers know that a good quality tube amp will be superior to solid state", or something like that..................

 

Set and forget can sound good if you are extremely lucky. But the devil is in the details.

 

Shakey

 

 

I had high power, crappy solid state amps that used Quasi Complementary AB transitor designs that sounded like shit compared to my tube amps back when I got out of High School (mid 70's). I had Scott Integrated, Harman Cardan Citation II, McIntosh 240, Dynaco Mk III's,  and Marantz 8B amps. I also still own 3 different Class A amplifiers, which rival the sweet sound of tubes because of their 2nd Harmonic "pleasant distortion characteristics" that tubes are LOVED for.

 

In 1976/77, I met Saul Marantz and talked to him for about 1/2 hour at a show about amplifiers. He told me "Tubes for the high end, Solid State for the Low end." Something I have practiced UNTIL I discovered Hypex Class D. Specifically, the NC-400 designs, which have distortion so low, that new test gear had to be developed just to measure them. Nowadays, we can characterize ALL types of distortion components and select amplifiers to suit every taste imaginable, from inexpensive "chip based" to as exotic as you wanna get with your wallet (like Dagostino's $250,000 monoblocs).

 

Either way, Peter made us THINK and brought us down to REALITY on some of his points.

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13 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Now you sound like a typical Democrat Facebook Name Caller when you state only your OPINION vs. being presented with mostly factual statements. But carry on, this thread was meant to stir up the bees' nest and you have the biggest spoon so far.

 

IMHO. Is that better?

 

And not sure what you could have called me worse than "democrat". That surely stings................😉

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12 hours ago, RandyH000 said:

A   really cool guy    ,  the inventor of the CornScala ,  and you know the one who  influenced the craze for Modified  ,  Heresy and Cornwall Speakers :biggrin: -

Even though I was technically the first to build one in 1975, I can hardly claim to have "invented it." What made the "Corn" part was a box with a port and a 15" woofer with the right Thiele/Small Parameters and a copy of Paul Klipsch's K-400 Horn made the "Scala" part, with the same tweeter common to both. It's not an invention, but a DIY project with as few compromises as possible based on what I learned by being an Audio Engineering Society Member at the time (I joined because of PWK's urgings).

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6 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said:

 

IMHO. Is that better?

 

And not sure what you could have called me worse than "democrat". That surely stings................😉

I didn't call you a Democrat, I said your comment sounded like one I have observed over time on FaceBook. Big difference. Besides, your responses are no more harsh than Peter anyhow, right?

 

I'm actually glad you are commenting with how you feel, whether all the KlipscHeads (including me) agree or not.

 

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2 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

I didn't call you a Democrat, I said your comment sounded like one I have observed over time on FaceBook. Big difference. Besides, your responses are no more harsh than Peter anyhow, right?

 

I'm actually glad you are commenting with how you feel, whether all the KlipscHeads (including me) agree or not.

 

 

It's funny how something as simple as audio can have such polarizing opinions depending on which camp you are in. I want to stress that my opinions on gear and recorded media are just that. Sometimes we lose sight of the big picture, that we all enjoy listening to music, which is why we gather here. I just tend to be argumentative when people paint with a broad brush. Like all tube amps are inferior to SS amps. Nothing could be further from the truth, but it is often stated as a matter of fact. I have heard good solid state amps and poor sounding tube amps. I just happen to enjoy the sound of a good tube amp because it's what moves me.

 

So yes, "10 Lies of Audio" sounds like opinion masquerading as fact.

 

Shakey

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6 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said:

 

It's funny how something as simple as audio can have such polarizing opinions depending on which camp you are in. I want to stress that my opinions on gear and recorded media are just that. Sometimes we lose sight of the big picture, that we all enjoy listening to music, which is why we gather here. I just tend to be argumentative when people paint with a broad brush. Like all tube amps are inferior to SS amps. Nothing could be further from the truth, but it is often stated as a matter of fact. I have heard good solid state amps and poor sounding tube amps. I just happen to enjoy the sound of a good tube amp because it's what moves me.

 

So yes, "10 Lies of Audio" sounds like opinion masquerading as fact.

 

Shakey

Precisely. Hence the "refuse to die," part of my thread!.....................but some of the 10 are fact.

 

My own take is simply NOTHING in music reproduction can sound like live acoustic instruments in a room. It's only an EMOTIONAL ILLUSION that we apply as much science to recreate. Different is not the same. Even PWK said this about his Khorns, but some would argue that he came much closer than all the rest, especially in the 1950's with his Purist recordings, tube amps, and Khorns. The quest continues today.

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4 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

a DIY project with as few compromises as possible based on what I learned by being an Audio Engineering Society Member at the time (I joined because of PWK's urgings).

  here  is your  High school system  -1974-1975   cool speakers made with TV cabinets ,  tell me  this is not a  3 way Cornscala  with 511B horns   ,  the Altec  Model 19 did not  start out till 1976 and it only had an  811B horn , and today a lot of owners of the Model 19 use the 511B -

 

WallOsound1976.jpg

 

 

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#1 - True but only to an extent; in live sound where we are sometime forced to use extremely long cable runs we do try & match the lengths between left & right as the R/L/C does come into play over these runs which of course are largely irrelevant in the 6' or so you use at home, Dave Rat did some interesting videos comparing types of cable & coiling - 

 

 

#2 - Tube Sound: often as not it's transformer sound but no one ever talks about rolling their iron!

 

#3 - Digital digits are certainly not capable of being distorted in the signal path, they are however very susceptible to being dropped & mis-clocked, not all digital is the same by any means

 

All covered of course by Bruce Rozenblit in his book "Audio Reality."

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I have long known @TonyWhitlow was clueless, but I did give you more credit than that.
 
A vinyl record played back on a high quality rig will almost always sound better than a hi rez digital file. Digital has come a long way and sounds much better than it did in it's infancy, but there will always be something about the sound of a record that digital just can't match. At least for now.
 
And as for tube amps, well "many music lovers know that a good quality tube amp will be superior to solid state", or something like that..................
 
Set and forget can sound good if you are extremely lucky. But the devil is in the details.
 
Shakey
 
 

You are for sure clueless if you think a record sounds better than a CD. Playing a record is dragging a rock through mud to reproduce music. PWK himself said a record is a caricature of music.


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Just now, Tony Whitlow said:


You are for sure clueless if you think a record sounds better than a CD. Playing a record is dragging a rock through mud to reproduce music. PWK himself said a record is a caricature of music.


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Spoken like a true neophyte who grew up listening to plastic turntables. There really is better gear available. You should get out and hear some of it one day.....

 

 

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1 hour ago, RandyH000 said:

  here  is your  High school system  -1974-1975   cool speakers made with TV cabinets ,  tell me  this is not a  3 way Cornscala  with 511B horns   ,  the Altec  Model 19 did not  start out till 1976 and it only had an  811B horn , and today a lot of owners of the Model 19 use the 511B -

 

 

 

 

I had the 808-8a drivers in the 511B, which I also had in separate cabinets for the other half of my commercial system that used EV Eliminators for the bass portion. I left the "CornScala" at home while I took the Crown, amplifiers, and 4 big speakers to set up at gigs with pre recorded music on large reels. 2 reels took care of the music while I got paid to push the play button and go dance with the girls. It got ruined by Saturday Night Fever, which, from then on, required DJ's to use a microphone and take requests, so I went into Professional Wedding Photography instead.

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Spoken like a true neophyte who grew up listening to plastic turntables. There really is better gear available. You should get out and hear some of it one day.....
 
 

A neophyte I’m not. I’ve been listening to reproduced music on quality gear since 1976. You don’t no anything about me so keep your frigging opinions to yourself.


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1 minute ago, Tony Whitlow said:


A neophyte I’m not. I’ve been listening to reproduced music on quality gear since 1976. You don’t no anything about me so keep your frigging opinions to yourself.


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LOL, I "no" you can't spell. But that's a conversation for another day.

 

You've not heard vinyl on a quality turntable setup or your opinion would surely be different. But I'm not beating this dead horse, done with you........

 

 

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LOL, I "no" you can't spell. But that's a conversation for another day.
 
You've not heard vinyl on a quality turntable setup or your opinion would surely be different. But I'm not beating this dead horse, done with you........
 
 

No matter the quality of the turntable it is still limited to the actual medium. Surface noise is inherent in every single plastic record. Perhaps you like this noise because it sounds
“warmer”. And I can definitely spell just made a mistake which you’ve probably never made.


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11 hours ago, Shakeydeal said:

It's funny how something as simple as audio can have such polarizing opinions depending on which camp you are in

Actually Audio is anything but simple, hence this thread. My philosophy is ALL systems are a bad illusion vs. real acoustic instruments, but we all go for the best illusion we can afford! Or to put it another way, end up with what we think sucks the least.

 

When Peter Walker of Quad Electrostatic Loudspeaker fame (ESL-57) was asked if he thought his speakers were the best in the world, he replied: "No, but they do make nicer noise than many of the others." True Dat!!

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