DAC/Streamers, Streaming, Networked Music Systems

[NBPK402]

Not meaning to argue, but doesn't the Lumin app run on a computer? Now if you mean a desktop computer, I can understand that is no longer needed since computers are much smaller now, and come in many forms..like tablets, and even cell phones.

Sent from my SM-T830 using Tapatalk

[rplace]

I've run Roon on a Win10 computer, QNAP NAS and finally landed on an i7 NUC running a Roon specific OS built on Linux called ROCK. Not much difference between Win10 and Rock, but the NAS was problematic. In all of these implementations I never connected my DAC/Streamer to the device that was running Roon Core. Roon Core can be in a different location from your playback device. For Roon to provide a decent user experience it needs a reasonably stout computer and the database component should be installed on a solid state drive. Your music files can be on spinning hard drives. The simple solution is a large USB drive of music files connected to your Nucleus/NUC/PC/Mac. You cold have the PC/Mac and USB drive with music connected to the DAC as well. I've read that is not a good idea. People over in the Roon world suggest better sound quality when you separate the Core from the playback device. Seems to me like in the digital realm that is tough to justify. 1s/0s and all that jazz. 

 

Yes there is no getting away form computers these days. @Shakeydeal 's Lumin is a computer (of sorts), so is @NBPK402 's NUC, so is your car if it was built in the last 20 years for that matter. They do a good job of running software, no doubt about it.

 

I'm suggesting that you don't want/need a PC/Mac as the device feeding your DAC. There is no 100% rule, I just feel that a smaller, quieter device fits my situation better. If the Roonies are correct about SQ then I'm already headed in the right direction.

 

Thoughts?

[Shakeydeal]

25 minutes ago, NBPK402 said:

Not meaning to argue, but doesn't the Lumin app run on a computer? Now if you mean a desktop computer, I can understand that is no longer needed since computers are much smaller now, and come in many forms..like tablets, and even cell phones.

Sent from my SM-T830 using Tapatalk
 

 

 

Yes, if you want to get technical about it, the Lumin app does run on an iPad. And yes the U1 streamer is technically a computer. I guess what I was really trying to say is there is no reason to have a program running on a laptop with a USB connection to a DAC in order to stream music. Other than the Lumin U1 mini itself, I have no computer connected to the audio system. I run the app on a tablet using wi-fi and the streamer is connected to a network switch which goes to my router/modem.

 

Yeah, you'll never be able to stream from the internet or your hard drive without using SOME form of computer interface. I just choose to make it as simple as I can. When my digital rig sh*&ts the bed I can always spin the black circle. No computer needed..............😁

 

Shakey

[Zack R]

My setup is simple, sounds great, was not expensive, and is easy to use....

 

Source = Old Macbook air from 2012, running Spotify, configured for USB output with the Yamaha MIDI driver. Running wifi only (no ethernet port).

DAC = Yamaha A-S801, input via the USB

Integrated Amplifier =  Yamaha A-S801

Speakers = Klipsch CF3's V1

Remote control = Volume with the Yamaha remote, song selection with my Android phone running Spotify, controlling the Macbook via wifi

 

Its not the cutting edge of 2020 audio technology but it works well for me.

 

[Shakeydeal]

The real question is why are you still using a compressed music service?

 

 

[NBPK402]

I agree 100% with your comments, and I am glad you clarified. I am running Roon on win 10 (which I hate with a passion). I also have Linux Manjaro on a i3 NUC...would that be good enough for Roon? I use a ssd on a USB3 dongle(?),foer all my music and a MSATA Drive inside the NUC. I urr3 tlyplay music through Roon via my Yamaha cxa5100 via Music cast or directly to my tablet when I use headphones.

 

Sent from my SM-T830 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

[rplace]

7 minutes ago, NBPK402 said:

I am running Roon on win 10 (which I hate with a passion). I also have Linux Manjaro on a i3 NUC...would that be good enough for Roon?

 

Slightly confused. Is the i7 NUC the one with Win10? If so do you need it for anything else?

 

Ditch Win10 install ROCK on a M.2 SSD internal to the NUC and attach music files however you like (NAS, PC/Mac, external USB drive, etc.)

 

If I didn't need the NAS for movies/Plex my ideal Roon set up would be an i7 NUC, ROCK installed on internal M.2 SSD, identical 5TB USB drives. One connected to the NUC the other off site for backup. Small streamer like Pi/Lumin. A NOS DAC without volume control.....ie my Denafrips Venus II.😉

[Shakeydeal]

NOS DACS rule! 👍

[richieb]

Without the advantage(s) of a nearly endless supply of music whether stored or streamed, and ease of access, no one has asked - How is the quality of the music (sound) compared to a high end CD player? 

[rplace]

52 minutes ago, richieb said:

Without the advantage(s) of a nearly endless supply of music whether stored or streamed, and ease of access, no one has asked - How is the quality of the music (sound) compared to a high end CD player? 

 

I don't stream for various reasons you and I have discussed. If it is ripped properly from CD it sounds just like the source CD (for better or worse). I've got lots of HighRez files as well (think SACD, DVD-A, HighRez downloads, etc.) its the same as vinyl...that is, it depends on the recording/mastering. Some fantastic, some so-so. There is no perfect medium, I'm convinced of that.

 

For me my biggest revelation is how good 90s music can sound. I've never had a truly good DAC till recently. All the 40s-60s Jazz I have, female vocals and classic rock has been purchased multiple times in order to find the best version, remastering, etc. of the title I wanted (many 5 or more times). My late 80s to early 2000s CDs have always been what they are, single purchases. The quality DAC has breathed new life into the artists that apparently cared and I had never heard them how intended, until now. Some are still so-so, others much better. I've had some decent CD players in the past.

[pbphoto]

53 minutes ago, richieb said:

Without the advantage(s) of a nearly endless supply of music whether stored or streamed, and ease of access, no one has asked - How is the quality of the music (sound) compared to a high end CD player? 

It's one of those "it depends" answers I'm afraid.  Many of the music services mentioned above offer lossless CD-quality music or better.  Qobuz often has higher resolution versions of the same album in my local library.  So it comes down to 1) the mastering - which version of the album do you prefer?  Your personal CD or the remastered one on your music service?  and 2) the quality of your CD player versus the quality of the streamer/DAC you are using.  

[NBPK402]

 

Slightly confused. Is the i7 NUC the one with Win10? If so do you need it for anything else?

 

Ditch Win10 install ROCK on a M.2 SSD internal to the NUC and attach music files however you like (NAS, PC/Mac, external USB drive, etc.)

 

If I didn't need the NAS for movies/Plex my ideal Roon set up would be an i7 NUC, ROCK installed on internal M.2 SSD, identical 5TB USB drives. One connected to the NUC the other off site for backup. Small streamer like Pi/Lumin. A NOS DAC without volume control.....ie my Denafrips Venus II.[emoji6]

Yes the i7 is windows 10... I also use it occasionally for Photoshop...hencewhy I was wondering if the i3 would be e ough on Manjaro Linux.

If not I will buy a other i7 NUC in the spring for Rock.

Sent from my SM-T830 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

[Travis In Austin]

4 hours ago, rplace said:

Does this help or do you need more info?

That's what I needed.

[Travis In Austin]

Now I see a bunch of Receivers out there now that say they are Qobuz/Tidal ready, USB ready, etc., so if I wanted to go that route, which components in post No. 1 will come in the received?

 

I can either put a receiver outside, or a receiver inside, dual zone) and run the speaker wires outside to the speakers on the patio.

[richieb]

1 hour ago, rplace said:

 

I don't stream for various reasons you and I have discussed. If it is ripped properly from CD it sounds just like the source CD (for better or worse). I've got lots of HighRez files as well (think SACD, DVD-A, HighRez downloads, etc.) its the same as vinyl...that is, it depends on the recording/mastering. Some fantastic, some so-so. There is no perfect medium, I'm convinced of that.

 

For me my biggest revelation is how good 90s music can sound. I've never had a truly good DAC till recently. All the 40s-60s Jazz I have, female vocals and classic rock has been purchased multiple times in order to find the best version, remastering, etc. of the title I wanted (many 5 or more times). My late 80s to early 2000s CDs have always been what they are, single purchases. The quality DAC has breathed new life into the artists that apparently cared and I had never heard them how intended, until now. Some are still so-so, others much better. I've had some decent CD players in the past.

 

1 hour ago, pbphoto said:

It's one of those "it depends" answers I'm afraid.  Many of the music services mentioned above offer lossless CD-quality music or better.  Qobuz often has higher resolution versions of the same album in my local library.  So it comes down to 1) the mastering - which version of the album do you prefer?  Your personal CD or the remastered one on your music service?  and 2) the quality of your CD player versus the quality of the streamer/DAC you are using.  

^^
^
Thanks. 
Rich - in this dac/streamer/computer line of components I assume one or other of these devices must be “hard wired” from the internet router?

[Thaddeus Smith]

6 hours ago, rplace said:

 

I was just in the process of etching an SD card for RoPieee on a new RPi4 I picked up yesterday. I was looking at the differences between RoPieee regular and LX. Did not see mention of HQPlayer. Do you know if  you have to have XL for HQPlayer?

 

 

I do believe it's the XL version which includes for the HQPlayer "NAA" protocol support. It's easy enough to try both. I also utilize the beta Spotify support, so it was a no brainer for me.

 

[Thaddeus Smith]

3 hours ago, Shakeydeal said:

The real question is why are you still using a compressed music service?

 

 

 

New music discovery and background music. For critical listening I flip over to my FLAC library, but for "radio" mode it's a far better solution to hearing a variety, finding new tunes, etc vs OTA radio. I've contemplated going from Spotify to Tidal, but my family plan costs less than a Tidal Hifi subscription and I don't want to deal with moving my wife over to the new service, etc.

[pbphoto]

1 hour ago, richieb said:

 

^^
^
Thanks. 
Rich - in this dac/streamer/computer line of components I assume one or other of these devices must be “hard wired” from the internet router?

Not necessarily.  If you have good wifi, that's much easier.  All my streaming end points are wireless.

[rplace]

2 hours ago, NBPK402 said:

If not I will buy a other i7 NUC in the spring for Rock

 

Rock is free. You probably only need an i5 NUC, but I like overkill. Should be less than $500 complete

[rplace]

16 hours ago, richieb said:

I assume one or other of these devices must be “hard wired” from the internet router?

 

I'm not streaming due to my data limits and my current terrible Internet access, but I have. Music even HighRez uses a lot less bandwidth than video (something like NetFlix). Once you get the bits into your house, you should be able to move them to all your devices/endpoints wirelessly. As @pbphoto points out it would be a function of your wireless set up. Technically it is possible. If you have a 3-story house and the single transmitter is in one corner of the basement, probably not. If you have good coverage throughout your house, it should work fine.

 

16 hours ago, dwilawyer said:

Now I see a bunch of Receivers out there now that say they are Qobuz/Tidal ready, USB ready, etc., so if I wanted to go that route, which components in post No. 1 will come in the received?

These would be the streamer and DAC combo in post #1 picture. Not Roon, per se.  

 

Not 100% sure since I don't do it, but they will have some way to manage your account and some way to play it (DAC). My experience has always been that the companies (Sony/Denon/NAD/etc.) UI/UX is lacking. Software built by engineers is terrible. It will work but you won't like it. Think web sites in 1994. The real joy of Roon is the actual use of the software. There are tons of way to play digital music throughout your house....most of them stink, IMO.

 

17 hours ago, dwilawyer said:

I can either put a receiver outside, or a receiver inside, dual zone) and run the speaker wires outside to the speakers on the patio.

 

This is exactly what I do (not outside, but dual zone). I have a living room 5.1 set up with an AVR. That AVR has a zone 2 option that I use to power another pair of Klipsch outdoor speakers on my deck. That single, digital device feeds both the living room and the deck. The outdoor system for my pool/backyard is on its own separate system.