La Scala Drivers - Max Power Handling?

[Robbie010]

I am just attempting to dial in the basic setting on the DSP plate amps for my la scala, the first section asks for the impedeance and the maximum power handling of each driver.

 

I am ok with the impedance but what is the max power handling of the K33E, K55V and the K77M?

 

Out of the box, the amp provides 125w for the woofer, 125w for the midrange and 100w for the tweeter. My initial thought was to leave the woofer channel at 125w, maybe 100w for the midrange and 50w for the tweeter?

 

[Islander]

I think K-77 tweeters are rated to only 5 watts or so.  Most K-33 woofers are rated at 100 watts continuous power and 400 watts peak power.  For the K-55 squawker, I'm not sure.

 

In most places, the midrange driver is called just that, but lots of folks here, including me, use the original term.  Woofer - squawker - tweeter.  Sounds and looks right, right?

 

If you're careful with the volume control, you can use pretty powerful amps safely.  My La Scala IIs are bi-amped, and are 2-way.  The mid and high section is disconnected, and I'm using the tweeters from a Jubilee.  The crossovers are also disconnected, and I use an E/V Dx38 active electronic crossover.  The system uses two Yamaha MX-D1 power amps, which put out 500 watts per channel.  One amplifier feeds the woofers, and the other amp feeds the tweeters.  Having each amp cover only half of the audio spectrum reduces distortion.

 

The K-33 woofers are supplied with 500 watts each, and the K-691 tweeter drivers, rated at 50 watts, are also supplied with 500 watts each.  I've been running the system in this configuration since 2008, with no problems.  At first, the speakers were original La Scalas, and the tweeter drivers were K-69-A, also rated at 50 watts, if memory serves.  I've got a normal sized room, 18'x19'x8', and I rarely listen to really loud music.  Where the extra power comes in handy is for overhead.  Loud transients, like kick drums, handclaps, gunfire, and so on, can call for hundreds of watts for a split second, when the rest of the music is playing at maybe 3-5 watts.  Having lots of overhead gives the sound realistic dynamics, meaning the drums can sound like actual drums, which makes for more convincing sound.

 

Nowadays, most speaker manufacturers recommend that you use amplifiers of double the power of the speakers' ratings, i.e., if your speakers are rated at 100 watts, use 200 watt amps.  This is to be sure that your amps won't be driven into clipping at high volume, which would send dangerous clipped signals to the speakers, which can damage them.  Actually, with the high sensitivity of most Klipsch speakers, especially the Heritage Series models, like La Scalas, very little power is normally used in a home application. Some Scala fans use 5-10 watt tube amps, and love them.  If you're playing them in a big dance club, then you'd be putting a lot of power through them.

 

I hope I didn't make that too simple.  I have no idea what you know, so I tried to cover all the bases.

[bugg_nn_out]

On 11/19/2020 at 4:19 AM, Islander said:

I think K-77 tweeters are rated to only 5 watts or so.  Most K-33 woofers are rated at 100 watts continuous power and 400 watts peak power.  For the K-55 squawker, I'm not sure.

 

In most places, the midrange driver is called just that, but lots of folks here, including me, use the original term.  Woofer - squawker - tweeter.  Sounds and looks right, right?

 

If you're careful with the volume control, you can use pretty powerful amps safely.  My La Scala IIs are bi-amped, and are 2-way.  The mid and high section is disconnected, and I'm using the tweeters from a Jubilee.  The crossovers are also disconnected, and I use an E/V Dx38 active electronic crossover.  The system uses two Yamaha MX-D1 power amps, which put out 500 watts per channel.  One amplifier feeds the woofers, and the other amp feeds the tweeters.  Having each amp cover only half of the audio spectrum reduces distortion.

 

The K-33 woofers are supplied with 500 watts each, and the K-691 tweeter drivers, rated at 50 watts, are also supplied with 500 watts each.  I've been running the system in this configuration since 2008, with no problems.  At first, the speakers were original La Scalas, and the tweeter drivers were K-69-A, also rated at 50 watts, if memory serves.  I've got a normal sized room, 18'x19'x8', and I rarely listen to really loud music.  Where the extra power comes in handy is for overhead.  Loud transients, like kick drums, handclaps, gunfire, and so on, can call for hundreds of wats for a split second, when the rest of the music is playing at maybe 3-5 watts.  Having lots of overhead gives the sound realistic dynamics, meaning the drums can sound like actual drums, which makes for more convincing sound.

 

Nowadays, most speaker manufacturers recommend that you use amplifiers of double the power of the speakers' ratings, i.e., if your speakers are rated at 100 watts, use 200 watt amps.  This is to be sure that your amps won't be driven into clipping at high volume, which would send dangerous clipped signals to the speakers, which can damage them.  Actually, with the high sensitivity of most Klipsch speakers, especially the Heritage Series models, like La Scalas, very little power is normally used in a home application. Some Scala fans use 5-10 watt tube amps, and love them.  If you're playing them in a big dance club, then you'd be putting a lot of power through them.

 

I hope I didn't make that too simple.  I have no idea what you know, so I tried to cover all the bases.

 

Bump. Great post. Feel like it may be worth picking up where this left off and asking further questions on-topic. There is surprisingly little reliable information out there for those of us who want to use our LSIIs for music other than the kinds that sound stellar through a ultra-low-watt tube amps (orchestral, ambient, some guitar music, etc.). I also plan to listen to orchestral and other musics, but feel I have different needs than many other LSII owners. I am interested in using my LSIIs to play dynamic music, as it were. House, techno, etc.

 

Big bass, complex transient sequences can really do a number on my LSIIs with Hypex 252MP amplification producing 125W actual RMS (advertised as '250W'). Even at low volumes -- for me -- it can sound like they are the LSIIs are struggling to parse information cleanly and quickly; at higher volumes, the distortion can cause a little bit of an earache over time. I'm planning on adding a sub to lighten the LSIIs' load, but even when I do a low-cut (~80hz) through my dbx 234xs and just let the LSIIs breathe, 125W RMS is just not enough for my pleasure, personally, let alone when I'm throwing a party at my house!

 

I am close to pulling the trigger on a Purifi 1ETA400A in stereo, and hoping to run that to the 'low' terminal on the LSIIs while reserving the 'high' terminals for the stereo Hypex 252MP. My theoretical interest in this setup is built on the assumption that any much more than 325W RMS per channel of LSII is gonna be 'too much' because the LS is such a high-sensitivity speaker. Is this still true in 2021? Might I wanna look into higher-wattage amp for those inevitably high-power transients? Has anyone running their LSes for PA club situations found a high-wattage amp that they thought worked well with it? What have others' experiences with NON-JubScala high-wattage setups been (Klipschorn or LS)? 

 

I know that Dave Mancuso, for example, ran his Klipschorn system on low-ish watt amp (100W RMS / channel, I believe?). Alas, unlike him I don't have 6 Klipschorn to make good sound out of, nor the budget. 

[billybob]

Post fairly new and not dated.

Clean SS the LS can accommodate within reason.

And why not. No distortion you should be good. A PA speaker after all is said and done, would expect continuous as in music.

 

Good fortune!

[Marvel]

On 11/19/2020 at 7:19 AM, Islander said:

Most K-33 woofers are rated at 100 watts continuous power and 400 watts peak power

 

New ones are rated for 150 watts (at least the info from Eminence say 150)

16 hours ago, bugg_nn_out said:

Big bass, complex transient sequences can really do a number on my LSIIs with Hypex 252MP amplification producing 125W actual RMS (advertised as '250W'). Even at low volumes -- for me -- it can sound like they are the LSIIs are struggling to parse information cleanly and quickly; at higher volumes, the distortion can cause a little bit of an earache over time. I'm planning on adding a sub to lighten the LSIIs' load, but even when I do a low-cut (~80hz) through my dbx 234xs and just let the LSIIs breathe, 125W RMS is just not enough for my pleasure, personally, let alone when I'm throwing a party at my house!

 

You have a big house?

 

I used my LS in an 1800 sq/ft room with 20 ft ceilings, packed with people. Powered them with a single Crown XLI800 @ 300 wpc. We were not hurting for good sound at all.

 

If your volume is too high, you will get compression/overloading in the throat of the K400 midrange horn. You would really need to switch to a 2 inch throat horn and driver.

[Panelhead]

  Using a 120watt@8 ohm solid state amplifiers to drive LS II. Plenty loud. But crossed at 80 hz to subs.

[garyrc]

On 7/26/2021 at 7:05 PM, bugg_nn_out said:

 

Bump. Great post. Feel like it may be worth picking up where this left off and asking further questions on-topic. There is surprisingly little reliable information out there for those of us who want to use our LSIIs for music other than the kinds that sound stellar through a ultra-low-watt tube amps (orchestral, ambient, some guitar music, etc.). I also plan to listen to orchestral and other musics, but feel I have different needs than many other LSII owners. I am interested in using my LSIIs to play dynamic music, as it were. House, techno, etc.

 

Big bass, complex transient sequences can really do a number on my LSIIs with Hypex 252MP amplification producing 125W actual RMS (advertised as '250W'). Even at low volumes -- for me -- it can sound like they are the LSIIs are struggling to parse information cleanly and quickly; at higher volumes, the distortion can cause a little bit of an earache over time. I'm planning on adding a sub to lighten the LSIIs' load, but even when I do a low-cut (~80hz) through my dbx 234xs and just let the LSIIs breathe, 125W RMS is just not enough for my pleasure, personally, let alone when I'm throwing a party at my house!

 

I am close to pulling the trigger on a Purifi 1ETA400A in stereo, and hoping to run that to the 'low' terminal on the LSIIs while reserving the 'high' terminals for the stereo Hypex 252MP. My theoretical interest in this setup is built on the assumption that any much more than 325W RMS per channel of LSII is gonna be 'too much' because the LS is such a high-sensitivity speaker. Is this still true in 2021? Might I wanna look into higher-wattage amp for those inevitably high-power transients? Has anyone running their LSes for PA club situations found a high-wattage amp that they thought worked well with it? What have others' experiences with NON-JubScala high-wattage setups been (Klipschorn or LS)? 

 

I know that Dave Mancuso, for example, ran his Klipschorn system on low-ish watt amp (100W RMS / channel, I believe?). Alas, unlike him I don't have 6 Klipschorn to make good sound out of, nor the budget. 

 

Dave Mancuso, I believe, used one side of a McIntosh 275 (75 watts per channel) tube amp  for each of his Klipschorns.  128 w.p.c. SS into my Klipschorns pumps out 116 dB from each one, at 13 feet. (4,000 + cu.ft. room); the loudest I have ever had it was 110 dB (32 watts, instantaneous). 

[Marvel]

6 hours ago, garyrc said:

Dave Mancuso, I believe, used one side of a McIntosh 275 (75 watts per channel) tube amp  for each of his Klipschorns.  128 w.p.c. SS into my Klipschorns pumps out 116 dB from each one, at 13 feet. (4,000 + cu.ft. room); the loudest I have ever had it was 110 dB (32 watts, instantaneous). 

 

I was actually surprised at how awesome my LS sounded in the 36000 cu.ft. room. They would have been better elevated, but the main dance area was plenty loud, IIRC, it was very hard to carry on a conversation at the back of the room.

[JohnA]

The K-77-M has the same diaphragm as a T350 and should carry its power ratings of 5 watts continuous/50 watts Peak (program)/100 watts instantaneous (I wouldn't test this).   

T350 EDS.pdf