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Klipsch Cornwall IV, a look inside


Dawson's Ridge

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1 hour ago, jimjimbo said:

Where are the outputs to the speakers?

Now that they have been pointed out as the "typical" 0.025" on 0.1" center type PCB connectors, the max. current rating is about 5 Amps per pin. The square cross section is equivalent to solid round 21 AWG wire...............for those of you who care about such things.

 

Since current produces heat, and the most current goes to the Woofer, which has a #30 Awg. wire equivalent in the voice coil.

 

Since most speakers use direct radiator woofers of 4 ohms, the current squared time the impedance should allow for a continuous 100 Watts to be delivered to the woofer without excessive heat.

 

Since the amp is rated at 250 Watts output (24 dbWatts), there should be plenty of dynamic headroom in the hands of the consumer (not the PA idiots that burn up woofers for a living trying to generate 110 db continuous to render hearing damage to their audience).

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13 hours ago, jimjimbo said:

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/speaker-amps/hypex-fusionamp-fa123/ Hypex-FA123

 

Chris, you might want to start another thread with this info.  Pretty much off track from the OP...

Yes, you're right on that topic.  When the FusionAmps come in, I'll start a new topic after I get them installed and dialed in.

 

However on the topic of this thread, the author of the YouTube video was talking about "upgrading" the crossover components (something that I'm sure that PWK would have scoffed at, and I believe that I can guess what Roy already thinks of those "enhancements").  Roy does good work, so I believe that he's already got the 98+% solution in place that will provide all the audible fidelity that you're going to get out of the passives.

 

The FusionAmp provides the ability to remove the effects of woofer back-EMF via separation of the drivers into separately amplified circuits (which IS a big deal that you can actually hear), to flatten both the SPL and phase response of the loudspeaker in-room (an even bigger deal, as it turns out), and to remove any time alignment issues (another big hitter in terms of eliminating the time-misalignment timbre changes into the playback of the music).  These performance differences are audible. 

 

Chris

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8 hours ago, Dawson's Ridge said:

Not a pretty sight. Now I know why the Cornwall IV is so heavy, it is the used 2x4's placed inside to keep the front baffle from caving in. Inexpensive horn material and low-grade x/o parts and cheap stamped steel woofer basket.

 

 

 

Are just a troll?  Do you complain about a free lunch? 

 

Your comments are more than unfair.  Steel, stamped or otherwise is among the stiffest of metals, 3x stiffer than Aluminum, and is the normal material for woofer baskets.  The cabinet does not need a 2x4 to prevent "caving in", but like all materials the wood may need to be stiffer.  Why pay to rip a 2x4 when it fits as is?  Those hand wound, iron-core inductors are not low grade.  Iron-core has lower resistance and a very tight magnetic field so there is little worry of one affecting another.  Those film and foil capacitors are not "low grade".  Little is gained from $700 silver foil caps. 

 

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39 minutes ago, JohnA said:

 

Are just a troll?  Do you complain about a free lunch? 

 

Your comments are more than unfair.  Steel, stamped or otherwise is among the stiffest of metals, 3x stiffer than Aluminum, and is the normal material for woofer baskets.  The cabinet does not need a 2x4 to prevent "caving in", but like all materials the wood may need to be stiffer.  Why pay to rip a 2x4 when it fits as is?  Those hand wound, iron-core inductors are not low grade.  Iron-core has lower resistance and a very tight magnetic field so there is little worry of one affecting another.  Those film and foil capacitors are not "low grade".  Little is gained from $700 silver foil caps. 

 

A man whose ears I trust heard the CW IV and all the rest of the "Roy redesigned" Klipsch Heritage line. Without exception, all were improved, but the MOST improved had been the Cornwall. I know I'm as guilty as anyone here in "improving" Klipsch speakers, but I'm also guilty of using MEASUREMENTS as well as long term listening tests of all kinds of test music, including all the Music that Roy himself uses to voice speakers. Plus, I only do it to 44 year old boxes, not brand new ones.

 

Let's just say that I would trust the venerable Chief Engineer/PWK's handpicked successor more than a guy tearing things apart for the video, which is only interesting from a visual standpoint rather than a sonic one.

 

There's an old expression: "The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts," which applies here. So yes, you can't judge the quality of the synergy of the whole product by just looking at the guts and passing judgement as to their "Quality" without a whole bunch of technical data to support your position. Iron core inductors and toroidal ones have far lower ESR than Air Core ones, so unlike most "golden ears" out there with quasi-religious beliefs about the "superiority" claims of other types have not done their homework.

 

Your video was quite interesting and could have been much shorter. That being said, I'm glad you did it, since it does show what the guts DO look like , but nothing more. You should follow up with some listening tests, and/or some measurements. There's a reason why so many Klipscheads and Klipsch converts all rave about this Cornwall IV and your unfounded critical observations are both unfair and devoid of data to back up your opinions. I agree with JohnA's rebuttal here.

 

But regardless, thanks for posting it as I found it VERY interesting Visually!

 

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Klipsch used cast aluminum woofer baskets in their premium Palladium offering (as opposed to stamped steel in their standard Heritage line) for several reasons, casting produces tighter tolerances, results in a stiff frame without adding unecessary weight to support a heavy magnet structure, eliminates ringing and cabinet resonances, serves as a heat sink to dissipate heat without any reflection of the back wave, more...

 

2x4's are needed in the Cornwall IV because the weak baffle won't support the 15" woofer. 

 

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9 minutes ago, Dawson's Ridge said:

Premium speaker makers prefer cast aluminium woofer baskets for several reasons, casting produces tighter tolerances, results in a stiff frame to support a heavy magnet, eliminates ringing and cabinet resonances, serves as a heat sink to dissipate heat...

 

As for free lunch, only if it is road kill as mentioned above.   

I know of one famous speaker maker who used Cast frame woofers, not because they performed better than stamped steel when the REQUIRED tolerances were met, but because they helped justify a much higher SELLING PRICE to a crowd who would care about such things even though they produces ZERO benefit sonically or for longevity.

 

Case and point, I recently chose a stamped steel frame woofer for my own old Cornwalls because they performed better than the Cast Frame version, not because they were a few bucks cheaper. Same goes for tires. You don't choose based on the the thread pattern looks, you choose by how well they grip the ROAD with YOUR car under different weather conditions, hence the "rubber meets the road" expressions being applicable here.

 

Much like I heard Studio Photography Lecturers make a general claim about White Umbrellas reflecting warmer color temperature light modification than Silver ones, having never measured them when I asked. Having done Kelvin measurements as a Studio Consultant to Master Photographers, I discovered that HALF of them were the opposite of the claim, which made it UNTRUE at least half the time. PWK used to quote Dr. Irving Gardner when he said: "You can't make what you can't measure because you won't know when you have it made."

 

So if you choose to believe one opinion over another in Audio, make sure the one you believe has come to you with DATA to back up their opinions.

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15 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

I recently chose a stamped steel frame woofer for my own old Cornwalls because they performed better than the Cast Frame version, not because they were a few bucks cheaper.

 

I'm in the process of designing some loudspeakers right now. I can specify any drivers that I want, but I'm going to use some stamped-frame Eminence woofers. They are the only drivers that have the T/S parameters that I need. 

 

There is more to performance than opinion, personal preference, and superstition.

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3 hours ago, Dawson's Ridge said:

2x4's are needed in the Cornwall IV because the weak baffle won't support the 15" woofer. 

 

 

That's untrue, the baffle can support the driver just fine. The bracing is used to move any resonances outside of the audible range.

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6 hours ago, Edgar said:

 

I'm in the process of designing some loudspeakers right now. I can specify any drivers that I want, but I'm going to use some stamped-frame Eminence woofers. They are the only drivers that have the T/S parameters that I need. 

 

There is more to performance than opinion, personal preference, and superstition.

Precisely the point I made. I have chosen some other stamped frame woofers from Eminence also. They do meet their published specifications. I also know and respect Jerry McNutt who provides very competent box designs for people who don't want to bother. There's a reason why Klipsch has been buying many drivers from them for their Pro and Heritage lines for years.

 

Eminence even has a new 21" monster neo woofer to compete with B&C performance and price-wise, made in the USA of course. Also, I just curved their 314X driver with the new Carbon Diaphragm and it's terrific on the right horn from 700-18 Khz. I can't wait to hear it.

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8 hours ago, Chris A said:

The FusionAmp provides the ability to remove the effects of woofer back-EMP via separation of the drivers into separately amplified circuits

Is this a new term for back EMF? Which is the term I'm more familiar with, or something new? Tech world has too many TLA's (Three Letter Acronyms). LOL.

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7 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Is this a new term for back EMF? Which is the term I'm more familiar with, or something new? 

 

Back-EMP is what occurs when the plutonium core of the magnet structure exceeds critical mass due to overdrive. :smile:

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