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Amp Rolling with Active Jubilees


Ziggurat

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5 hours ago, Chris A said:

 

 

Now, if you ask me what I actually think about tube amplifiers, you might get a totally different response than you might otherwise think (I don't like them), I do see a couple of reasons why people think they're injecting "magic" into their systems.  They're also injecting something else that isn't magic (soft clipping is typical, especially for very low power SETs, etc.) that I don't care for, and a bunch of other nonlinear stuff that I would prefer not to deal with.  But if you're into "euphonic distortion" of tubes/valves, this is one effect that is no longer in the "magic" pile, something that's easily measurable.

 

Chris

 

Thanks Chris

 

Totally agree with this (except I love tubes).

 

I've come to realize that even the best stereo system on earth with still only be a representation of a representation of a representation (usually!) of the real thing.  Chasing perfection therefore (ie no distortion and all other negatives we speak of) is somewhat futile, thus, pick a sound you like and call it good.  I have found that tubes give that to me at the top end, and solid state delivers in the bass.  Lucky I have active Jubes right?!  

 

Interesting by logical re the phase shift stuff.  Thanks for your wisdom as ever.

 

Zig

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On 12/10/2020 at 1:01 PM, Chris A said:

Me, too...  The RCA analog-only connection into the First Watt F3 picks up a fair bit of common mode noise (power line 60/120/180/240 Hz hum).  The ISO-MAX reduces that noise floor at least 20-30 dB in my experience, even though my connecting RCA analog cables are just over 1 ft. in length. The ISO-MAX filter doesn't subjectively affect the sound quality at all.  They're a bit spendy however.  I recommend them highly, nevertheless.

 

All my other connections (i.e., seven other stereo amplifiers) are XLR/balanced and have no issues with noise floor.

 

Chris

A-ha... so you have had problems connecting balanced to un balanced equipment:)

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I FOUND THE SOURCE OF MY HUM!

Joy of joys, and after just spending $200 on Deuland kitted L-pads. Idiot.

 

The USB cable between the Xilica and computer.... always plugged in so I can make Xilica adjustments.... unplugged, BINGO, DEAD SILENT amps. Very very happy to have finally worked it out. 

 

Seems silly, but I'd tried turning the computer and the xilica off individually and together, and not had any improvement - as such I never thought to try disconnecting them...

 

Anyone looking for a hot deal on 2x 5r7 and 2x 3r Deuland Silver Graphite cast resistors? 🙂

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5 hours ago, babadono said:

A-ha... so you have had problems connecting balanced to un balanced equipment:)

The background hiss wasn't bad at all without the ISO-MAX, but was audible when the room was very quiet and my ears were about 3-4 feet away--very low, not annoying.

 

I'm sure that the dogs could hear it...but they don't seem to pay any attention. 🐕🐕🐕

 

Chris

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On 12/16/2020 at 11:19 PM, Ziggurat said:

A quick update.

 

I've picked up the Bryston 7bst monoblocks and set them up to power the Jube bins. They took some time to fully warm up, but once they did, the rewards were very apparent...

 

The bass is now super fast, clean, dry, immediate - free of blurring. Really hearing seperate tones right down to the lower registers.. I even seem to have picked up a few extra hz! (Need to confirm this)

 

Again, the characteristics of these amps are considerably different to the other gear, with the closest comparison being the Macrotech. But the Brystons have an edge over the big Crown in terms of speed and clean edges...

 

I don't envy my neighbors tonight....

20201217_202024.jpg

 

Congrats on your purchase of a fine pair of power amplifiers.  Bryston does have a great reputation.  Don't worry about having too much power.  Keeping things simple and consistent, I use the same 500 Wpc dual-mono power amps for both bass and treble.  I've been running 1000 Wpc for 12 years with my JubScalas, enjoying every minute, including right now.  It's 2:20 am and I live in an apartment.  I've never had a noise complaint.  Okay, it's a bigger apartment than the ones downstairs, so the Left speaker is over their dining room, while the Right speaker is over their bathroom.  That probably helps.  The 500 watts available to each 50-watt rated mid/tweeter driver have never been fully used, of course.

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Ziggurat,

 

My compliments on your choice of the W4S STP, I am using the same preamp.

It is very quite!!!

And between my XP-4080 and the STP, all my connectivity needs are a piece of cake.

 

For powering my outdoor patio speakers, I send the signal out from the 2nd XLR outputs on the STP to a pair of

Crown D-75s (each in bridged mode).

Works like a dream, especially with being able to adjust the gains on the D-75s.

 

I run my bass cabinets with a Classe CA-150 and then my 402s with a Triode Labs 2A3 SET.

My ears like this amplifier configuration!

 

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On 11/30/2020 at 11:58 AM, sunnysal said:

I loved tube amplification on the top end and solid state down below

This is the advice I got when I met Saul Marantz in the 1970's when he was President of Dahlquist. Tubes on top, solid state on the bottome. RIP to one of the greats in the industry who also had the respect of PWK!

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5 hours ago, HPower said:

Ziggurat,

 

My compliments on your choice of the W4S STP, I am using the same preamp.

It is very quite!!!

 

 

The Wyred was a chance purchase - I knew very little about it when I bought it. It has since proved itself against more expensive pre-amps in my system.

 

It is not without its foibles though. The remote is junk, firstly. More annoyingly is the pop! pop! pop! between attenuator steps, especially loud between 13-14 Volume. Between 0-14 the channel outputs are not balanced either. I ran my Xilica gain levels low so I stay out of this range with the Wyred.

 

Ii may ultimately send it across the ocean back to Wyred for upgrade, and get a better remote.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Ziggurat said:

 

The Wyred was a chance purchase - I knew very little about it when I bought it. It has since proved itself against more expensive pre-amps in my system.

 

It is not without its foibles though. The remote is junk, firstly. More annoyingly is the pop! pop! pop! between attenuator steps, especially loud between 13-14 Volume. Between 0-14 the channel outputs are not balanced either. I ran my Xilica gain levels low so I stay out of this range with the Wyred.

 

Ii may ultimately send it across the ocean back to Wyred for upgrade, and get a better remote.

 

 

 

That is 🤔, I find my sweet spot on the volume control is right in the 13-16 range as far as musical loudness goes.

I have notice the clicks/pops, but again, where I find myself mostly on the knob it is not a big issue for me.

Yes, the remote is VERY cheesy, the upgrade remote "looks" much nicer, but I think it is about $300usd. 😳

 

When I got my used STP, my long term goal was to do the same and send it in for the Stage2 mod, but sonically

I really can't complain about how it sounds...

Maybe one day if the Canadian Dollar strengthens enough to make it a little more affordable.

 

 

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12 hours ago, Ziggurat said:

I FOUND THE SOURCE OF MY HUM!

I changed my satellite TV provider, and when I turned on my system I had a hum from my bass bins. So I started disconnecting everything from the new equipment piece by piece, even the dish outside. No luck. I measured 55db from the right bass bin, and 40db from the left. I finally ruled out the new equipment and unplugged the right channel XLR to RCA cable from the DX 38 to the power amp, and bingo! Silence. I replaced the cable and all is good, complete silence. I was going nuts, took me about six hours over two days. Talk about stress.😖  

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On 12/17/2020 at 3:00 PM, Chris A said:

They're also injecting something else that isn't magic (soft clipping is typical, especially for very low power SETs, etc.) that I don't care for, and a bunch of other nonlinear stuff that I would prefer not to deal with.

 

Tubes are actually more linear than ss, requiring much fewer peripheral parts to make a good amplifier. But a very good tube amp really won't 'sound' different than a good ss amp. So you can opt out of the maintenance, pretty glow, heat, etc., that tubes bring to the table.

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12 hours ago, Marvel said:

But a very good tube amp really won't 'sound' different than a good ss amp.

Yes, but those typically aren't the type of tube/valve amplifiers being used by most people on audio forums that gush over "tube sound"...is it? 

 

I believe that they're gushing over something else (that I really don't care to place into my setup).

 

Chris

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It's been an interesting week for the Jubes.   First they got a taste of Canadian Muscle, which they clearly enjoyed.  Next I had some issues with my aftermarket compression drivers, so I put the Klipsch originals back on and found them lacking severely from 16khz upwards, the Xilica ran out of adjustment for this. So Just for giggles, I hooked up a couple of cheap rubbish TOA horn tweeters, running parallel straight the back of the 1133's - no crossover or anything, no science here folks.. Anyway - it sounded good!  I mean, not phenomenal, but good enough to know that I want to tri-amp the system and either run a separate tweeter as we see here, or utilize the BMS co-ax driver @Chris A has been playing with (the more likely route).

 

I also built a frame for the 402's to make trying different alignments easier.. These will be a temporary solution, so again, not very scientific. But I kinda like how they look! 

Joob.jpg

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3 hours ago, Islander said:

If you like the 3-way arrangement, why not get proper K-510 horns for the tweeters?

Only because of the cost of getting them to New Zealand, and because the BMS drivers have been reported by ChrisA to be very good, with the HF being delivered from the same point as the mids - ie no need for an additional horn flare.  

 

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Wow.  It looks like the last part of my previous post disappeared.  Are your Jubilees the 2-way model?  You mentioned 1133 drivers.  Those are not mid/tweeter drivers, they’re midrange drivers, which would explain a case of rolled-off highs.  For 2-way Jubilees, the correct mid/tweeter drivers is the K-691.  The 1133 is only used with 3-way Jubilees.

 

There’s a happy Jubilee owner in England.  He wasn’t totally happy at first, but by good luck, he had a visit from another Jubilee owner.  I think it was Coytee.  In the course of the visit, and checking out the cool speakers, Coytee noticed the discrepancy, and the mystery was solved.  When Klipsch was informed of the mistake in assembling the package for shipping, they sent a pair of K-69-A drivers, which were being used at that time in the 2-way Jubilees.  He was much happier when he fitted the new drivers.  The current driver is the K-691.  I’ve used the K-69-A drivers in my JubScalas since 2008, and when I switched to the K-691s in early 2019, they sounded clearly better.  So that’s what I know about that.

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7 minutes ago, Islander said:

Wow.  It looks like the last part of my previous post disappeared.  Are your Jubilees the 2-way model?  You mentioned 1133 drivers.  Those are not mid/tweeter drivers, they’re midrange drivers, which would explain a case of rolled-off highs.  For 2-way Jubilees, the correct mid/tweeter drivers is the K-691.  The 1133 is only used with 3-way Jubilees.

 

There’s a happy Jubilee owner in England.  He wasn’t totally happy at first, but by good luck, he had a visit from another Jubilee owner.  I think it was Coytee.  In the course of the visit, and checking out the cool speakers, Coytee noticed the discrepancy, and the mystery was solved.  When Klipsch was informed of the mistake in assembling the package for shipping, they sent a pair of K-69-A drivers, which were being used at that time in the 2-way Jubilees.  He was much happier when he fitted the new drivers.  The current driver is the K-691.  I’ve used the K-69-A drivers in my JubScalas since 2008, and when I switched to the K-691s in early 2019, they sounded clearly better.  So that’s what I know about that.

 

Yes thanks for this - I had covered that ground early on and spoke to Roy about the factory-supplied drivers.  As it was, a friend sent me Faital HF200's which I swapped out for the Klipsch units before I did anything about it.  The Faitals defo have the better top end, however I have had some balancing issues between the two drivers, so are temporarily off the horns.  I am really just experimenting at this point - having some fun.  And fun it is 🙂

 

Thanks Islander

 

Zig

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Okay.   I’m glad to hear you’re getting things sorted, and having fun.  It’s great to be able to communicate with Roy.  The Faital drivers have a good reputation.  I got my 691 drivers from a Jubilee owner in Texas who had replaced them with Faitals.

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I am currently running K-691s on the back of my 402, which are on top of my Peavey FH-1s and sending fantastic.

On my previous DIY Jub-likes, I had the HF-200s on the 402s... this set-up also sounded great to my ears!

 

Ziggurat, I believe I still have this set-up somewhere on my hard drive or XP-4080 that Chris did the calibration for.

Would you like we to email that .xdat file to you to give a try with your Jubs / Faitals?

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 12/10/2020 at 3:01 PM, Chris A said:

Me, too...  The RCA analog-only connection into the First Watt F3 picks up a fair bit of common mode noise (power line 60/120/180/240 Hz hum).  The ISO-MAX reduces that noise floor at least 20-30 dB in my experience, even though my connecting RCA analog cables are just over 1 ft. in length. The ISO-MAX filter doesn't subjectively affect the sound quality at all.  They're a bit spendy however.  I recommend them highly, nevertheless.

 

All my other connections (i.e., seven other stereo amplifiers) are XLR/balanced and have no issues with noise floor.

 

Chris

would this work?

https://www.amazon.com/Isolator-BOSS-Audio-B25N-Systems/dp/B000LP4RMG/ref=sr_1_21_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=line+input+isolation+transformer&qid=1610648412&sr=8-21-spons&psc=1&smid=ABO907060G8YG&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzRjhLMUxBVUZDRTdTJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwOTYwNDQ4N0hBRE5OOEZWREJFJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAxNTE3MzM0UzZQSkFEMDlQUDYmd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9idGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl

 

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