deadlift Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 I recently got a set of speaker cables to try out with my La Scala II's only to find out that the spades were too thick to fit along with the jumpers. This lead me to thinking about bi-wiring but I just can't wrap my head around the concept. How is bi-wiring any different then one set of cables with jumpers instead of two sets of identical cables? I guess one could say that a speaker cable will sound better than the standard jumpers found on my speakers. Has anyone bi-wired and noticed a huge difference in sound ? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeloManiac Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 Just to be sure you're not mixing this with bi-amping: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadlift Posted December 16, 2020 Author Share Posted December 16, 2020 No just talking about bi-wiring at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeloManiac Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 Some amps can drive two pairs of speaker sets - a variation of the first schematic above, and that is what I tried once. The outcome for me was unclear, at times I thought it was slightly better, but many believe it is a 'placebo' effect: you think/wish it would sound better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeloManiac Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 https://www.audioadvice.com/videos-reviews/speaker-bi-wiring-bi-amping-explained/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadlift Posted December 16, 2020 Author Share Posted December 16, 2020 That was one of the articles I looked at, while being clear and well written I'm still thinking as you mentioned a "placebo effect" . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 Biwiring in and of itself provides no sonic benefits. If it becomes a matter of connectability, it won't hurt. But it doesn't help. Biamping is a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 Bi wiring separates the connection in the crossover between low and high frequencies. It puts the connection back at your amps output. It makes the low and high frequency energy travel down separate wires. Can you hear a difference? Only YOUR ears can tell you that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicroMara Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 The improved sound is attributed not only to the lower ohmic resistance (the cable cross-section doubles, after all), but above all to the reduction of electromagnetic interactions. Because the bass chassis is a higher load, comparatively more current flows to it than to the midrange and tweeter. If the power supply for the bass is now separated, the electromagnetic fields caused by these currents are separated from the midrange/tweeter lines. A feedback on this frequency range should be avoided in this way, a quieter and more plastic reproduction should be the result. It follows from this reasoning that splitting the conductors while keeping the same cable run (i.e. in principle two cables but sharing a common "tube") does not represent consistent bi-wiring. This is because the close proximity of the conductors to each other can still result in the electromagnetic feedback I mentioned - if bi-wiring, then also with separate cables. Furthermore, the cables should have the same length and be of the same type, otherwise a different phase behavior can occur depending on the frequency range. A same cable type now does not mean that they must be identical cables, but the capacity and inductance should be approximately the same. If this is taken into account, a higher-quality speaker cable for the high / mid-range and a cheaper one for the bass can deliver the better performance for the money. Admittedly, this must be judged by one's own listening experience. Some manufacturers do not think much of the bi-wiring concept and accordingly do not provide a bi-wiring capable speaker terminal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 41 minutes ago, babadono said: Bi wiring separates the connection in the crossover between low and high frequencies. It puts the connection back at your amps output. It makes the low and high frequency energy travel down separate wires. Can you hear a difference? Only YOUR ears can tell you that. No, bi-amping does that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 5 minutes ago, wuzzzer said: No, bi-amping does that. Bi amping puts the frequency separation before the amplifiers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 7 minutes ago, babadono said: Bi amping puts the frequency separation before the amplifiers. Sorry, I misread your post. All I know is I tried 'bi-amping' my old RB-5s with my old Pioneer Elite receiver because I had extra speaker wire and the receiver supported it. I couldn't tell any kind of difference. Now, this wasn't true bi-amping because the receiver was sending a full range signal to both inputs and was still relying on the speaker's crossover network. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panelhead Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 I have bi-wired, vertically biamped, and bridged my LS II. Never tried a single cable run with the jumpers. I prefer the vertically biamped. Should not make difference. But sounds better to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadlift Posted December 16, 2020 Author Share Posted December 16, 2020 So assuming one does not bi-wire and leaves the jumpers, it really does not matter which posts you use as long as you do not do something silly like connect your leads to both positive or negative posts. But then again if you are one to use expensive speaker cables and say hook the cable up to the HF side - you are now depending on the jumpers to transfer the signal to the LF side and to me the stock jumpers look like zip wire terminated with spades, so potentially undoing your expensive speaker cable ? Thanks again 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicroMara Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 No if you do it like this , nothing can happen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadlift Posted December 16, 2020 Author Share Posted December 16, 2020 Exactly what I had in mind!!! Can't hurt and who knows may all of sudden have an epiphany with greater dynamics, better imaging and a bigger sound stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 I heard that Noel Lee is a real believer in bi-wiring. (insert some sort of smiley face here...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 2 hours ago, deadlift said: the stock jumpers look like zip wire terminated with spades, so potentially undoing your expensive speaker cable ? yea but they're like 2 inches long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechEngVic Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 7 hours ago, deadlift said: I recently got a set of speaker cables to try out with my La Scala II's only to find out that the spades were too thick to fit along with the jumpers. This lead me to thinking about bi-wiring but I just can't wrap my head around the concept. How is bi-wiring any different then one set of cables with jumpers instead of two sets of identical cables? I guess one could say that a speaker cable will sound better than the standard jumpers found on my speakers. Has anyone bi-wired and noticed a huge difference in sound ? Thanks I would go with the the spade-terminated wires and buy or make yourself a set of jumpers like @MicroMara 's, banana plug on one end and spade on the other, or maybe with banana plugs on both ends. Do an eBay search for "bi wire jumpers". At the voltages and currents that run through speaker wires, the only possible benefits that could come from a bi-wire set up would be if one set of wires was specifically wound and of a gauge to better transmit high-frequencies, and the other set would be wound and of a gauge to work with low frequencies. And even then, it would be a significant expense for a possibly minor to un-noticeable difference in sound quality. The way a wire pair is wound, along with its gauge, can affect its capacitance, inductance and resistive qualities. At the lengths of the typical set of wires, the differences are hardly audible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeloManiac Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 https://www.klipsch.com/blog/how-to-bi-amping-a-speaker The way I see bi-amping making sense is with an active crossover. So your input signal passes through the active crossover which splits the signal in two (programmable), and then sends signal 1 to Amp 1 (for low frequencies) and signal 2 to Amp 2 (for high frequencies). Typically, Amp 1 would be a high watt amp, while Amp 2 would be delicate, low watt (tube) amp. By doing it like that, Amp 2 won't have two process the energy rich low frequencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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