How important is clean power?

[MeloManiac]

I'm considering upgrading my external phono stage to the iFi Zen Phono stage, which is still budget, but gets pretty good reviews. It comes with a standard ifi power supply, but there is also an optional higher quality iFi power X.

 

First, the iFi Zen Phono ($149) stage itself: "Unusually, the ZEN Phono has its own high-tech clean power supply. It creates a 1.2MHz power supply (20,000x mains frequency of 60Hz). In this circuit, a 10uF filtering capacitor = 200,000uF at lower, audible frequencies. With serious levels of noise filtration, it performs at the level of well-designed LC filtering circuits as found in classic tube amplifiers. Further, located on its own ‘island’ PCB, it is isolated so there is no noise pollution of the analogue stage." https://ifi-audio.com/products/zen-phono/

 

Then there is the optional iFi Power X ($99): "The original iFi iPower provides an effective, clean power solution for noise in your system. But why not push your power upgrade to the max with the all-new iFi iPower X? Our new ultra-low noise AC/DC power supply has be optimised to take  advantage of new knowledge, components and tech in the world of super high-frequency power supply design." (https://ifi-audio.com/products/ipowerx/)

 

I've read some user reviews saying that esp on good recordings, the Power X adds noticibly more 'blackness' when spinning vinyl, but also when using with a DAC. Some say that using this power unit on their router, improves the sound quality of streamed music. This last thing makes me a bit suspicious. Is it perhaps 'placebo' and snake oil?

 

Being technically challenged, I wonder what you think of this Power X...

 

 

[MicroMara]

There are hardly any phono preamplifiers in this price range that can serve MM and MC pick-ups in the phono circuit. This speaks for the product. Sonically, I can not assess the IFi. Very good MM phono preamps cost at least $ 500 and more. Very good phono preamplifiers that guarantee MM and MC mode are even more expensive. But for this price you can certainly not go wrong and buy the device. You have after European purchase right 14 days return period.

 

I have also connected a linear 230 volt power supply to my 12 Volt modem and can only confirm that the modem since then at least no longer fails  😇, a sound improvement of my network player when streaming through the use of the linear power supply, however, I can exclude with certainty.

 

 

[Bubo]

Depends on your power from the city.

 

80ft from my home in my yard is a giant city power transformer.

 

I do have under and over voltage and surge protection on everything inc my AC system.

 

My first surge suppressor is installed in the Breaker box and connects to both rails.

 

There may also be some budget bench power supplies that you can use.

 

1 to 1 transformers don't cost much if you are worried about DC

 

Go to Amazon (and your fav search engine) and enter "isolation transformer", the ones labeled Medical may have some Std they have to meet so they don't snuff granny by feeding bad power to her medical device. May save the life of your stereo too.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-IS500HG-Isolation-Transformer/dp/B00007KQKJ/ref=sr_1_14?dchild=1&keywords=isolation+transformer&qid=1608476034&sr=8-14

 

I'm not sure how switchers handle noise and voltage problems, but conventional Transformer, Diode, Capacitor systems in addition to being heavy and bulky are very robust.

[Edgar]

If you really want clean power, you will ditch all connections to the AC power in your home and power your equipment with batteries. I currently work as an engineer in the power industry. You would not believe the garbage that is on the power lines. Granted, most power supplies do a good job of rejecting it, but we're audiophiles -- we aren't satisfied with "good enough".

 

If you can't tell whether I'm kidding or not, consider this: neither can I.

[Islander]

Tripp*Lite makes good gear.  The Isobar Ultra 6 and Isobar Ultra 8 surge suppressors/line noise filters have been cleaning my power since 2008 and still seem good as new.  When I first connected the TV to the old CRT TV that I was using at the time, the blacks were clearly blacker, so that told me something good had to be going on.

[seti]

If the power supply in your gear isn't good enough to clean this up what is the point? In my diy stuff the power supply is the biggest part.

 

 

[OO1]

26 minutes ago, seti said:

If the power supply in your gear isn't good enough to clean this up what is the point? In my diy stuff the power supply is the biggest part.

 

 

right , and most people will run multiple devices on a single device  which is worse 

[OO1]

39 minutes ago, Islander said:

Tripp*Lite makes good gear.  The Isobar Ultra 6 and Isobar Ultra 8 surge suppressors/line noise filters have been cleaning my power since 2008 and still seem good as new.  When I first connected the TV to the old CRT TV that I was using at the time, the blacks were clearly blacker, so that told me something good had to be going on.

--------TRIPPLITE -APC  - etc is great stuff ,  but installing 1 commercial  grade surge protector in your main electrical panel will protect all the house including the wiring

[seti]

14 minutes ago, RandyH000 said:

right , and most people will run multiple devices on a single device  which is worse 

 

But it does keep the hum down.

 

 

[Islander]

24 minutes ago, RandyH000 said:

--------TRIPPLITE -APC  - etc is great stuff ,  but installing 1 commercial  grade surge protector in your main electrical panel will protect all the house including the wiring

 

That sounds like a good idea, but I’m in a condo apartment, so there are likely rules against customizing my main electrical panel.  As well, the power is pretty stable here in the capital of the province.  While other areas may have power outages a few times a year, typically due to snow-laden tree branches falling onto power lines, or issues caused by strong windstorms, I’ve only experienced one power outage in the twenty years I’ve lived here.  I was out getting a haircut at the time, and had to hold up my cellphone, so the barber could use its light to finish the job.

 

All that to say that the filtering of line noise is more of a concern than extremely rare power spikes.  I think I’ve got decent protection against those, though of course it could always be better, like everything else.

[OO1]

2 minutes ago, Islander said:

 

 I’m in a condo , there are rules -

good luck --I have a swear jar for you -

[Islander]

18 minutes ago, RandyH000 said:

good luck --I have a swear jar for you -

 

Yeah, there were a few things I had to learn, at some cost.  The first two homes I owned were detached houses, so I was master of my domain, so to speak.  It's not fun to find out that your neighbours have powers over the place you live in, like the ability to turn a quiet over-18 building into a "rentals permitted" all-ages one.  I went from knowing 95% of the residents (It's a smallish building, and I'm on the Strata Council/Condo Corporation.) to only knowing about 10-15% of them.  But now the suites are probably worth thousands more, which was the motivation of the President to bring the change about, since he was selling, and wanted top bucks for his place.

[Islander]

2 hours ago, seti said:

If the power supply in your gear isn't good enough to clean this up what is the point? In my diy stuff the power supply is the biggest part.

 

 

 

My gear has good power supplies, but Class D amplifiers are known for putting out line noise, and I'm using four of them (2 power amps and two subwoofers), so it would seem logical to try to keep the noise from getting into the other components, be they analogue or digital, Class AB or D.

[seti]

6 minutes ago, Islander said:

 

My gear has good power supplies, but Class D amplifiers are known for putting out line noise, and I'm using four of them (2 power amps and two subwoofers), so it would seem logical to try to keep the noise from getting into the other components, be they analogue or digital, Class AB or D.

 

If you are to the point in your system where your worrying about "line noise" than I suppose you have made it. However worry about line noise feels like audio hypochondria to me..

 

 

 

[Islander]

Just now, seti said:

 

If you are to the point in your system where your worrying about "line noise" than I suppose you have made it. However worry about line noise feels like audio hypochondria to me..

 

 

 

 

Well, having those white metal boxes with the cheery red and green lights supplying power to my system makes me feel that I have a couple of things I don't have to worry about, so that allows me to enjoy the system that bit more.

[Bubo]

Years ago I put up roof antenneas

 

worried about lightening, I decided to ground the entire house like a radio station transmission tower

 

Four 8ft rods tied together in a circle

 

Tied to all of the plumbing and electrical contacts and boxes

 

When my daughter returned from school, turned on the TV and asked

 

What did you do to the TV ?

 

TV was still connected to cable.

 

Everything matters

[Les Lammers]

On 12/19/2020 at 5:34 PM, ILI_MeloManiac said:

I'm considering upgrading my external phono stage to the iFi Zen Phono stage, which is still budget, but gets pretty good reviews. It comes with a standard ifi power supply, but there is also an optional higher quality iFi power X.

 

First, the iFi Zen Phono ($149) stage itself: "Unusually, the ZEN Phono has its own high-tech clean power supply. It creates a 1.2MHz power supply (20,000x mains frequency of 60Hz). In this circuit, a 10uF filtering capacitor = 200,000uF at lower, audible frequencies. With serious levels of noise filtration, it performs at the level of well-designed LC filtering circuits as found in classic tube amplifiers. Further, located on its own ‘island’ PCB, it is isolated so there is no noise pollution of the analogue stage." https://ifi-audio.com/products/zen-phono/

 

Then there is the optional iFi Power X ($99): "The original iFi iPower provides an effective, clean power solution for noise in your system. But why not push your power upgrade to the max with the all-new iFi iPower X? Our new ultra-low noise AC/DC power supply has be optimised to take  advantage of new knowledge, components and tech in the world of super high-frequency power supply design." (https://ifi-audio.com/products/ipowerx/)

 

I've read some user reviews saying that esp on good recordings, the Power X adds noticibly more 'blackness' when spinning vinyl, but also when using with a DAC. Some say that using this power unit on their router, improves the sound quality of streamed music. This last thing makes me a bit suspicious. Is it perhaps 'placebo' and snake oil?

 

Being technically challenged, I wonder what you think of this Power X...

 

 

 I used the first version of the iFi power supply with an Arcam rPlay and the SQ was improved. I'd get it and return it if you don't hear a difference.

[MicroMara]

In Germany there is a company ASR Audio, which builds amplifiers with batteries since 1980.The capacity of the accumulators is so generous that the input amplifier stage of the emitters can be operated more than "100 operating hours" continuously from the accumulators!  The ASR accumulator power supply is connected to the amplifier section with a separate cable. The charging circuit is digitally controlled with an interference-free optical logic. The plus/minus 18 volts supplied by the accumulators are buffered with 428,000 uF HV electrolytic capacitors.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[babadono]

I fear something is getting lost in translation..... Emitters and accumulators? Sounds like transistors and micro processors

[MeloManiac]

43 minutes ago, MicroMara said:

In Germany there is a company ASR Audio, which builds amplifiers with batteries since 1980.The capacity of the accumulators is so generous that the input amplifier stage of the emitters can be operated more than "100 operating hours" continuously from the accumulators!  The ASR accumulator power supply is connected to the amplifier section with a separate cable. The charging circuit is digitally controlled with an interference-free optical logic. The plus/minus 18 volts supplied by the accumulators are buffered with 428,000 uF HV electrolytic capacitors.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's an American company that has a phono preamp with battery storage. Pretty expensive though... 

https://www.analogplanet.com/content/channel-ds-seta-l-comes-out-transimpedance

This is link to asr audio: https://www.stereophile.com/phonopreamps/1003asr/index.html