RP-5000f "upgrade" to 600M/6000F/LS50

[AndyV]

Hi everyone,

I'm currently using 5000F+500C as LRC and 500M as rear speakers. Plus, I have an R-100SW sub.
Everything connected to Marantz 8012 AVR.

 

I've been using this setup for two years and now thinking of upgrading it, focusing mainly on music improvement.

 

The first thing I did I bought an SVS 2000 Pro to replace R-100SW.

 

I was thinking about 8000F, but they are way too HUGE and will not with my room. Plus, I don't have much room to move them far enough from the wall. 10 in is as far as I can go.

That's why I'm considering 6000F, but not sure this will be a noticeable upgrade, and they are still much deeper than 5000F, so the same issue — moving them away from my wall.

Another option I'm considering is front ported speakers — Focal Chora 826 which are in completely different price range but I still can get them for $1600. 

 

So, I thought, why not go a different route with bookshelves speakers where I'll have more placement flexibility. 
I'm considering two possible options: 600M and LS50 (Non metas, which I can get now for $800ish).

As a third option, stick to 5000f and spend money on 2ch amplifier, such as Parasound A23+ or Emotiva XPA-2 Gen 3. 

 

I don't have a dedicated listening room; it's open space 12 ft. x 12 ft with 9 ft ceilings (it's actually asymmetric 12x22 ish if I count kitchen and the additional area I don't care about)

I don't have any special room treatments but soft furniture, heavy curtains, and a carpet. So my room is kind of echoey, and my couch is close to the back wall. I know it's faaaar from perfect, but I'm intended to keep it as preserving a living aspect of the living room )

That is why one of the options is stick to 5000f since it might make no sense upgrading them for imperfect room and focus on base management and front speakers placement

 

 

So, what do you think?

 

 

PS:

the scale is most likely not entirely correct

 

Edited December 27, 2020 by AndyV

[Travis In Austin]

Welcome to the Forum! 

 

Your diagram/layout with greatly help people get you the information you are seeking. 

[wuzzzer]

If you want improvement for music stick with Klipsch.  Hardly any other speakers in their price range can reproduce music like Klipsch can.

I would suggest looking for a used pair of Heresys in your area.  They're going to be wider but significantly shallower than the RP series.  The midrange horn in the Heritage series really makes music come alive. 

[AndyV]

44 minutes ago, wuzzzer said:

If you want improvement for music stick with Klipsch.  Hardly any other speakers in their price range can reproduce music like Klipsch can.

I would suggest looking for a used pair of Heresys in your area.  They're going to be wider but significantly shallower than the RP series.  The midrange horn in the Heritage series really makes music come alive. 

 

Heritage will not work for multiple reasons:
1) Size. It's much wider; I will not be able to place fit them correctly;
I have a left wall and a doorway; I do not have enough width. Or they will make my room unlivable, so I need to find a balance
2) Much higher price tier (X2—X8 for the Heresy IV);
3) Considering #1, and #2, will be a waste of money
That is why I'm considering bookshelves speakers or front ported towers.

That is why I'm considering bookshelves speakers, or front ported towers, or keeping 5000f.
Upgrading speakers for the sake of upgrade itself is not the way.

 

I believe that room treatment, front speakers, and bass management are the most important parts of the equation. 

I can't do anything with the room beyond what I did, and it's far from perfect. 

I will work on bass management (not sure if I'm willing to add a second sub, though. First, I need to play with SVS 2000 Pro when I get it).

So, the last part is the speakers. And I don't want to overpay for speakers that might not work (I'm pretty sure will not) at their full potential.

Edited December 26, 2020 by AndyV

[AndyV]

If you are interested in why I bought 8012 for the 5.1 system, well, I used to run a full Atmos system in my previous apartment with bounce speakers, and it was a carp. 
Also, I used to use Paradigm 800f with 500c as LCR, but my girlfriend didn't like it, so I went with a smaller 5000f. Now we broke up, and I decided to make a NY present for myself )))
 

Another example of a mistake I don't want to repeat is to upgrade secondary components for the untreated room. 
I used to have Anthem 325 AMP, and honestly speaking, I didn't hear a difference at all (even with Paradigm 800, which I was using at a time).
But since then I moved to a new apartment, which is smaller, but acoustically wise it's better.

 

Edited December 26, 2020 by AndyV

[billybob]

Welcome to the forum!

First thought, why not the 8000f

as you say, minimal up to 6000f.

Since you feel unlike me about the 

8000f, like your idea about the 600m pair and 1 sub at first may well do it there. Before I buy a new receiver, would try the 8012 at first anyway. Sounds like you are about there with the plan.

When you do go with other electronics, just make sure eyes on bass management, as you have stated. Cool...

 

 

[wuzzzer]

If you haven't received your SVS sub yet, you're in for a treat.  It will completely walk all over your Klipsch sub.

I haven't heard them myself but the RP-160/600M have received fantastic reviews. 

[AndyV]

4 hours ago, billybob said:

Welcome to the forum!

First thought, why not the 8000f

as you say, minimal up to 6000f.

Since you feel unlike me about the 

8000f, like your idea about the 600m pair and 1 sub at first may well do it there. Before I buy a new receiver, would try the 8012 at first anyway. Sounds like you are about there with the plan.

When you do go with other electronics, just make sure eyes on bass management, as you have stated. Cool...

 

 

 

I actually bought them, but they arrived busted, and I wasn't able to test them. What was obvious, though, that 8000f are HUGE, and I'm not sure that I'm willing to give them a second chance. I can try to fit them, but I will not be able to put them away from the wall. 
And another important aspect to me (I care about room comfort and appearance) is that 8000 are too big for my room size-wise.
That is why I was considering 6000f or bookshelves.

As for 600m, the main if it makes any sense?
5000f — dual 5.25 woofers in a larger cabinet, vs. 600m — single 6.5 woofer in a smaller cabinet?

I found this Steve Guttenberg's article (https://www.cnet.com/news/klipsch-rp-5000f-a-tower-speaker-to-be-reckoned-with/) where he indirectly compares 600m vs. 5000f, w/o clear conclusion though 

 

Also, I'm not comparing 600m with sub. vs. 5000f w/o, since I was using sub. with 5000f as well. And I already purchased a new SVS 2000 pro, so this should help no matter what option I'll pick.
So I should compare 5000f + SVS 2000 Pro vs. everything else.

 

And I'm not planning to buy a new AVR; I already have 8012; what I'm considering is to purchase an amp. But, honestly speaking, I think that new amp is way less important than other stuff. such as 

• Room treatment (not my case)
• bass management (in progress)
• Fron speaker upgrade (the main question)

The next things that might matter are 

• Processor/DAC — I think 8012 have a decent one
• Source — I think mastering is more important than the source itself. And again, convenience is much more important than absolute quality. So my pic is music streaming (including Tidal), rather than CD or music download in best possible quality, plus I have Rega P3 turntable, but again, for the most part, it's streaming.
• And in the last place is amp/ pre-amp (again, only because 8012 has decent specs)

 

 

Edited December 27, 2020 by AndyV

[AndyV]

2 hours ago, wuzzzer said:

If you haven't received your SVS sub yet, you're in for a treat.  It will completely walk all over your Klipsch sub.

I haven't heard them myself but the RP-160/600M have received fantastic reviews. 

As for the 600m, yes, I know, but this is a vacuum, and what about in comparison with 5000f (Dual 5.25 woofers in a larger cabinet vs. Single 6.5 woofer in a smaller cabinet)?

or LS50, or 6000F or Focal Chora 826 (not sure I want to pay X2—X3 but size wise it's ok, these are very nice looking speakers + front port)

Speakers should be forgiving to imperfect placement (6000f vs. 826); this is not relevant to 600m or LS50 (these I can place properly)

 

that's why I'm here; I a little bit tired of doing experiments on my own )))

 

PS:

I know what to expect from SVS 2000; in my previous larger apartment, I used to run dual SVS 3000, but the room was much-much larger and more echoey. 
I think single 2000 PRO should be enough

Edited December 27, 2020 by AndyV

[willland]

16 hours ago, AndyV said:

the scale is most likely not entirely correct

On the left side of the diagram, is there a door opening?

 

Bill

[Kamidioblitz]

Hi. I would never opt for the upward firing Atmos speakers but would rather try to either use front height and rear height speakers or fit Atmos speakers directly overhead. In a living room the front/rear height route is doable.

As for your mains, I would personally go with de RP6000F, add a RP504C as a center channel and RP600 as rears and would love to also use the RP600 as heights. Main reason would be to match the woofers throughout your entire setup.

This could be something you work towards. Been using front and rear height Atmos channels myself for four years and really like the way they look. Both Dolby Atmos and DTS: X sound great. I’m using an older Klipsch series and love the way they sound.


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk

[wvu80]

First the easy part; the Marantz 8012 is excellent.  No change needed here. Yeah you could add an external amp but unless you are cranking to very high SPL you won't hear that much of a difference.  You'll hear the biggest change in sound if you swap speakers.  I have the Marantz 6011, 110 wpc driving a 5.1 setup.

+++

 

I've tested the RP-600M as mains in a 3.1 TV setup.  The 600M sounds great on its own if you give it some power to allow it to play in its sweet spot.  Adding a sub makes it a 3-way system and it really sounds good.  This is what I know.  Now on to what I've read.

 

The consensus is the RP-8000F floor stander is a better sound than the 600M on stands.  The dual 8" woofs simply have a bigger, fuller sound.  I have not heard the 8000F.

 

You are considering going from a 5000F to a 6000F.  The RP is the mid tier in the Klipsch Reference series.  Going from the RP-5000 to the RP-6000 would be a lateral move IMO.  Yes the 6000F would be better but not substantially better than if you went to the 8000F.

 

Bottom line:

 

You know your room needs, we don't.  If it were my listening space here is how I would prioritize speaker choices to achieve the most  noticeable improvement in sound from the 5000F.

 

504C  - Upgrading the center speaker is the single best thing you can do to improve the sound, even music oriented sound.  This MUCH stronger center will work synergistically with the mains to improve the overall front sound stage.

 

8000F - Big improvment

6000F - Good improvement

600M - Also good improvement

External amp - Fair improvement

 

I thought Mr. @Kamidioblitz's suggestions directly upstream ^^^ were spot on as well.  He got the the point faster than I did.  🤜🤛

[billybob]

15 hours ago, billybob said:

Welcome to the forum!

First thought, why not the 8000f

as you say, minimal up to 6000f.

Since you feel unlike me about the 

8000f, like your idea about the 600m pair and 1 sub at first may well do it there. Before I buy a new receiver, would try the 8012 at first anyway. Sounds like you are about there with the plan.

When you do go with other electronics, just make sure eyes on bass management, as you have stated. Cool...

 

 

Yes, was for the most part agreeing with your plan. 10 inches out from the wall with the. 8000f

Is plenty in my opinion.

But, cannot disagree with your plan. Since you are mentioning a center, the 8012 looks like a keeper, as you are doing a combo 

HT and music it seems. 

Good fortune!

 

[AndyV]

2 hours ago, willland said:

On the left side of the diagram, is there a door opening?

 

Bill

Yes, door on one side and windows the other.

[AndyV]

2 hours ago, Kamidioblitz said:

Hi. I would never opt for the upward firing Atmos speakers but would rather try to either use front height and rear height speakers or fit Atmos speakers directly overhead. In a living room the front/rear height route is doable.

As for your mains, I would personally go with de RP6000F, add a RP504C as a center channel and RP600 as rears and would love to also use the RP600 as heights. Main reason would be to match the woofers throughout your entire setup.

This could be something you work towards. Been using front and rear height Atmos channels myself for four years and really like the way they look. Both Dolby Atmos and DTS: X sound great. I’m using an older Klipsch series and love the way they sound.


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk

 

Well, I tried, didn't like them, so I decided to stick to 5.1—5.2, and didn't regret

 

Matching the rest speakers' sizes will be the next step; now, I want to focus on 2-ch 

[AndyV]

2 hours ago, wvu80 said:

First the easy part; the Marantz 8012 is excellent.  No change needed here. Yeah you could add an external amp but unless you are cranking to very high SPL you won't hear that much of a difference.  You'll hear the biggest change in sound if you swap speakers.  I have the Marantz 6011, 110 wpc driving a 5.1 setup.

+++

 

I've tested the RP-600M as mains in a 3.1 TV setup.  The 600M sounds great on its own if you give it some power to allow it to play in its sweet spot.  Adding a sub makes it a 3-way system and it really sounds good.  This is what I know.  Now on to what I've read.

 

The consensus is the RP-8000F floor stander is a better sound than the 600M on stands.  The dual 8" woofs simply have a bigger, fuller sound.  I have not heard the 8000F.

 

You are considering going from a 5000F to a 6000F.  The RP is the mid tier in the Klipsch Reference series.  Going from the RP-5000 to the RP-6000 would be a lateral move IMO.  Yes the 6000F would be better but not substantially better than if you went to the 8000F.

 

Bottom line:

 

You know your room needs, we don't.  If it were my listening space here is how I would prioritize speaker choices to achieve the most  noticeable improvement in sound from the 5000F.

 

504C  - Upgrading the center speaker is the single best thing you can do to improve the sound, even music oriented sound.  This MUCH stronger center will work synergistically with the mains to improve the overall front sound stage.

 

8000F - Big improvment

6000F - Good improvement

600M - Also good improvement

External amp - Fair improvement

 

I thought Mr. @Kamidioblitz's suggestions directly upstream ^^^ were spot on as well.  He got the the point faster than I did.  🤜🤛

 

As I might see, we have a similar listening space; the only difference is that I have a wider and bulkier TV stand.

I'm considering 6000F only because I actually bought 8000F, but they arrived damaged, so I returned them but was able to try to fit them. Well... I guess I can say I squeezed them. 
I didn't like the look for my small space and visual aspect to me as important as SQ

504C makes sense, but as a next step since I'm not using the center for music

"8000F — Big improvmen" — no arguing here

"6000F — Good improvement" — The main question if it really makes enough sense?

"600M — Also good improvement" — here I'm not so sure. But I guess I can try to buy them if not, use them as backs

"External amp — Fair improvement" — I'd rather sell 8012 for around $2000 and go with 7705, which you can get now for $1700 + 5ch Monolith for $1500. But this is not even a third step )))

 

 

Now you see why I think that something smaller might work better in my case especially considering proper-ish placement vs. squeezing 

Edited December 27, 2020 by AndyV

[wvu80]

2 hours ago, AndyV said:

Now you see why I think that something smaller might work better in my case especially considering proper-ish placement vs. squeezing 

Nice pic.  That graphic helps especially for someone like me who doesn't visualize things all that well.

+++

 

In the particular case of that photo ^^^ I would consider getting a smaller TV/audio stand as opposed to having to compromise sound with smaller speakers.  I'm not saying that is what to do, I'm just saying that is something to consider.

 

I had a similar situation where I had an audio cab to work around.  My wife bought that cab.  She loves that cab.  She hates my speakers. 

 

[AndyV]

Ok, I decided to give a second chance to 8000F + I bought 504C to replace 500C. 
Additionally, I purchased 4 Auralex LENRD Bass Traps. But this is just a temporary solution until my order with GIK is ready (2+ mo. yikes 😬)

[wuzzzer]

Hope you love that SVS!

[billybob]

4 hours ago, AndyV said:

Ok, I decided to give a second chance to 8000F + I bought 504C to replace 500C. 
Additionally, I purchased 4 Auralex LENRD Bass Traps. But this is just a temporary solution until my order with GIK is ready (2+ mo. yikes 😬)

Cool... congrats