garthbernstein Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 For my 2 channel home theatre, I have a bad room layout (furniture, small area rectangular), with souped up Cornwalls and a Triode TRVSE35 tube amp. Is there any way to get a more "ambient" sound vs. directional from my listening area with the Cornwalls? Does the amp make a difference here at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 what do you mean by souped up Cornwalls 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garthbernstein Posted December 27, 2020 Author Share Posted December 27, 2020 Upgraded interior wiring plus new speaker wire posts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 31 minutes ago, garthbernstein said: For my 2 channel home theatre, I have a bad room layout (furniture, small area rectangular), with souped up Cornwalls and a Triode TRVSE35 tube amp. Is there any way to get a more "ambient" sound vs. directional from my listening area with the Cornwalls? Does the amp make a difference here at all? yes with good set up you can improve the spatial qualities of your speakers in your room. your gear is what it is and if it is limited then you do the best you can. A good source is the place to start then work your way toward the amplifier don't forget power cords and cables. most of all enjoy the journey because it's all journey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubo Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 Not sure what you mean by ambient ? Resonance ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 4 hours ago, garthbernstein said: Upgraded interior wiring plus new speaker wire posts great job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 3 hours ago, garthbernstein said: ...Is there any way to get a more "ambient" sound vs. directional from my listening area with the Cornwalls? Does the amp make a difference here at all? See the following thread: This configuration is probably less money than a new hi-fi amplifier or preamp. The AMT-1 driver provides a very "ambient" sound, even in poorly laid-out rooms because of its dipole nature. You can use single AMT-1s on top of Cornwalls and crossover at ~1 kHz. I'd recommend a miniDSP 2x4 HD to bi-amp and to flatten the response (the EQ corrections can be plugged into the miniDSP 2x4 HD from the corrections found in the first post of the thread). This will bypass the directional horn-loaded midrange and tweeter of the Cornwall. The total sensitivity (and efficiency) of the AMT-1 and the Cornwall woofer are about equal. Total cost (assuming you've got four channels of amplification already) is something like $600 (two AMT-1s and one miniDSP 2x4 HD--which is a price increase of $100 from last year at this time due entirely to ESS's AMT-1 price increase) plus a few bucks on cables. You will have much more "ambient" sound with this (...yes, I've used this configuration, and it does sound more ambient and natural...). The modification can easily be converted back to stock configuration, and the miniDSP 2x4 HD and AMT-1s can easily be used in other loudspeaker projects. It's basically win-win--there is no down side. P.S. If you need help generating a miniDSP 2x4 HD configuration file, feel free to PM me. I've still got a spare AMT-1 and Cornwalls and can measure/generate a file for you that I can email or PM back to you, by which you can use to program the DSP crossover. Chris 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garthbernstein Posted December 27, 2020 Author Share Posted December 27, 2020 Chris, unfortunately, I have no idea what any of your post (or previous thread) means...I'm a 5th grader audiophile! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 4 hours ago, garthbernstein said: For my 2 channel home theatre, I have a bad room layout (furniture, small area rectangular), with souped up Cornwalls and a Triode TRVSE35 tube amp. Is there any way to get a more "ambient" sound vs. directional from my listening area with the Cornwalls? Does the amp make a difference here at all? Ambient may be the wrong word for it. Less prominent, background, discreet, reserved may be a better description. If like me, words of a descriptive nature do not always come across. Ambience maybe more so. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 5 minutes ago, garthbernstein said: .I'm a 5th grader audiophile! and , what kind of music does a 5rh grade audiophile listen to these days -may I ask 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 30 minutes ago, garthbernstein said: Chris, unfortunately, I have no idea what any of your post (or previous thread) means...I'm a 5th grader audiophile! Look at the thread that I posted on the stacked Air Motion Transformers with wings. Imagine a single AMT-1 on top of each of your Cornwalls without the wings. This will provide an electrostatic or planar dipole-like sound that envelops the listeners with sound and gives you an expanded subjective depth of field, instead of the highly focused and flat soundstage sound of the Cornwall midrange and tweeter horn-loaded drivers. Additionally, it will probably subjectively sound much better to your ears, since the DSP crossover (a $205 miniDSP 2x4 HD) provides all the EQ necessary to dial in the loudspeakers to your room--sort of like "room correction software" [Audyssey, YPAO, ARC, etc.] on steroids. Read the thread that I posted above. I can guarantee this will address your sound quality concerns and provide you a listening experience that you've probably not had before. All you have to do is plug together two stereo amplifiers (of any type you desire) to the output channels of the DSP crossover using RCA cables, then plug in the input of the DSP crossover to your preamp output. Wire the woofer only of the Cornwalls to one amplifier, and the AMT-1 to the other amplifier using speaker wire (two pairs per loudspeaker--bi-amping). To program the DSP crossover, plug into the miniDSP using a USB cable and a PC/laptop, the bring up the miniDSP application on your computer (provided with the miniDSP crossover), load the file that I will send to you via email, then sit back and enjoy. That's about it. You never have to do anything else to the DSP crossover. If you want to mix-and-match amplifiers (i.e., be an "audiophile" swapping out amplifiers of your choice), that's entirely up to you. The miniDSP crossover, AMT-1, and Cornwall bass bin will last you a lifetime without changes or periodic maintenance. Chris 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 Here's a wiring diagram that I was describing above: The AMT-1s share one stereo amplifier (stereo amp #1), and the woofers (stereo amp #2) another stereo amplifier. The electronic crossover is the miniDSP, shown below: The drivers are direct connected to their amplifier output channels--no passive crossovers are used. Chris 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 Here's thread on using AMT-1s with Cornwalls: The reason for the DSP crossover (the miniDSP 2x4 HD) is to correct the AMT-1's SPL response (which I believe it needs in order to sound as good or better than the stock Cornwall) and to level and cross its overall output with the bass bin. Chris 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 ambient... spatial? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptorman Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 8 hours ago, garthbernstein said: Chris, unfortunately, I have no idea what any of your post (or previous thread) means...I'm a 5th grader audiophile! Chris is helping bring your Cornwalls to another level. The AMT-1 he mentioned is a "souped up" version of the electronics inside your speaker. You can adjust the sound to help with your room. It's actually a pretty inexpensive way to fine tune your speakers. Read his posts a few times and it will start to make more sense. I know it can sound like another language at times, but you'll figure it out. Chris REALLY knows his stuff, and always helps out on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grasshopper Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 20 hours ago, garthbernstein said: Is there any way to get a more "ambient" sound vs. directional from my listening area sounds to me like he's hearing a speaker here and a speaker there.... whatever term is used to describe that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 8 minutes ago, grasshopper said: sounds to me like he's hearing a speaker here and a speaker there.... whatever term is used to describe that I interpret the OP in the same way. From his description ("small area"), he may be in the near field, so he's hearing two discrete sources rather than a stereo illusion. As a first step I'd recommend experimenting with toe-in or even toe-out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 59 minutes ago, Edgar said: he may be in the near field, so he's hearing two discrete sources rather than a stereo illusion. So what about the precedence effect? How does that affect "ambient" sound? What are the time delays in a "small room" without using something like dipole or bipole radiation? I had the same issues as the OP with the Cornwall sound, with the loudspeakers in the surround sound role (5.1). When I placed the AMT-1s on top of them and bypassed the tweeter and midrange drivers, all those problems ceased. "Ambient" is the exact word that I'd use. I'm still using the AMT-1s in that role, albeit on top of Belle bass bins (midrange and tweeter bypassed) in order to avoid the higher levels of modulation distortion from the direct radiating woofers. Works superbly--much better than I had anticipated...and the price was right. Chris 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 19 minutes ago, Chris A said: I had the same issues as the OP with the Cornwall sound, with the loudspeakers in the surround sound role (5.1). When I placed the AMT-1s on top of them and bypassed the tweeter and midrange drivers, all those problems ceased. "Ambient" is the exact word that I'd use. Doesn't that defeat the very purpose of having a Cornwall? I mean, for that you could put a K33 or a CW1526 into a generic vented box and accomplish the same thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 Yes but I was... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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