iaRIVR Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 38 minutes ago, Dave A said: This might be sacrilege but I have always looked at Klipsch as the Harley's of the audio world. Extremely loyal following that can hardly wait in many cases for the warranty to expire so they can find performance and bling parts to add on. And Harley endorses that and makes a ton of money off it. 45 minutes ago, Woofers and Tweeters said: Although they might say that, it doesn't make it true. It's a balancing act of goods offered to the masses are produced to be affordable to as many people as is interested in the product and to make the most profit. The masses are not willing to pay x amount more for what little is improved, and the producer isn't willing to spend x more without raising prices, which will cause less purchases. There is always better than stock anything. My point with the bike was looking for an example where there would be more agreement if something was an upgrade or a downgrade. The bike is originally designed to a price point, market, etc, but most designers would chose lighter and faster if they were not constrained by cost. If you told Klipsch (and thinking of Chief here) to use fancy Dueland film capacitors and air coil inductors for the new Forte IV, would he be excited? Or sigh and say 'fine but now I have to rework everything to get back to the sound I originally wanted with caps I spec'd in the first place.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted January 4, 2021 Author Share Posted January 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, iaRIVR said: And Harley endorses that and makes a ton of money off it. My point with the bike was looking for an example where there would be more agreement if something was an upgrade or a downgrade. The bike is originally designed to a price point, market, etc, but most designers would chose lighter and faster if they were not constrained by cost. If you told Klipsch (and thinking of Chief here) to use fancy Dueland film capacitors and air coil inductors for the new Forte IV, would he be excited? Or sigh and say 'fine but now I have to rework everything to get back to the sound I originally wanted with caps I spec'd in the first place.' I think if Klipsch told Roy to assembly the best components for the best speaker possible it would stun the audio world. I figure his hands are tied a lot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, Dave A said: I figure his hands are tied a lot. Or he really wants to keep what PWK's vision is. As for the bike reference, People used to chop Harleys regularly, all attempts to perform better. I know Harley shops sell "upgrades", are any of these offered as an upgrade when buying new? My guess rather they are or aren't this is allow by Harley to keep from losing money to the aftermarket world. Like Carl mentioned, its no longer stock and to piggy back on that. If you don't like the stock sound or ride, why purchase the product at all. Build your own from the get go. I buy Klipsch cause I like the sound, I leave it at that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, The Dude said: If you don't like the stock sound or ride, why purchase the product at all. Build your own from the get go. To me, there is no need to reinvent the wheel. Buy a stock Vette and upgrade the brakes, tires, etc... makes it a better Vette without having to built it all from scratch. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 I like Klipsch too. Bracing the cabinets, Dynamat the horns and fixing other shortcomings is only making them sound better. If better wasn't better, then there would be no Cornwall IV, Forte III or LS AL5..... and we would still be riding springer motorcycles with drum brakes. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 2 hours ago, Dave A said: People spend tons of money on this stuff and I want to know if there really is a difference besides golden ears and price tag bragging rights. I am sure that better is better, but it seems to be on an exponential curve similar to watts/db... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry4841 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 I was perfectly happy with my LaScala's with AL crossovers for 20 or more years. I would not call them bad sounding. Something better out there, sure from what is said on this forum and sellers of crossovers. AA's not best for K-55M drivers, maybe but again the are hundreds if not thousands of of speakers using the AA with K-55M's that are perfectly happy with the sound. I like to think my speakers sound better with AA's than they did with AL's with the K-55M's. In the past I experimented with over 30 different combinations of X-overs for my LaScala's and I did find better sound variations but at the present time my speakers have AA's with what I call good enough. I did us a specific brand of capacitors that probably does roll of the highs in both the squawker and tweeters. The main reason for AA's is I wanted the speakers to be almost original when I am no longer around for my kids to enjoy or sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Woofers and Tweeters said: I like Klipsch too. Bracing the cabinets, Dynamat the horns and fixing other shortcomings is only making them sound better. If better wasn't better, then there would be no Cornwall IV, Forte III or LS AL5..... and we would still be riding springer motorcycles with drum brakes. I can see your point, but also know to keep a product line going, you will need to replace components that are no longer produced. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 34 minutes ago, henry4841 said: AA's not best for K-55M drivers, that is interesting and I've read JEM's comments and others as well to that effect , oddly , the K55M can be rebuilt using a PD5VH diaphragm and a gasket swap - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 37 minutes ago, RandyH000 said: oddly , the K55M can be rebuilt using a PD5VH diaphragm and a gasket swap - Wonder where you got this information? Pretty sure I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieStl Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 1 hour ago, henry4841 said: I was perfectly happy with my LaScala's with AL crossovers for 20 or more years. I would not call them bad sounding. Something better out there, sure from what is said on this forum and sellers of crossovers. AA's not best for K-55M drivers, maybe but again the are hundreds if not thousands of of speakers using the AA with K-55M's that are perfectly happy with the sound. I like to think my speakers sound better with AA's than they did with AL's with the K-55M's. In the past I experimented with over 30 different combinations of X-overs for my LaScala's and I did find better sound variations but at the present time my speakers have AA's with what I call good enough. I did us a specific brand of capacitors that probably does roll of the highs in both the squawker and tweeters. The main reason for AA's is I wanted the speakers to be almost original when I am no longer around for my kids to enjoy or sell. I am in the same camp. AA xovers with K55M and no issues or complaints. What is the problem exactly? Guaranteed that the improvement was drastic when I went from AL to AA but I had recapped the AA prior to install and that may have been most of the improvement or at least a part. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinmi Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 after we figure out why caps sound different, can we move on to tubes? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, MookieStl said: I am in the same camp. AA xovers with K55M and no issues or complaints. What is the problem exactly? Well, this from JEM, who are now apparently the experts..... If you want to keep your LaScalas performing as-built, I can provide the Klipsch replacement caps. However, this doesn’t address the problems with the AL network. You can’t change to a AA network unless you change the midrange drivers from the K-55M to the K-55V. The M and V have different sensitivities and therefore need specific networks to operate properly. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 5 minutes ago, kevinmi said: after we figure out why caps sound different, can we move on to tubes? Sure, that's a lot easier. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 11 minutes ago, MookieStl said: I am in the same camp. AA xovers with K55M and no issues or complaints. ditto with that statement -- 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry4841 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 25 minutes ago, kevinmi said: after we figure out why caps sound different, can we move on to tubes? Never going to be a proper answer. Too subjective. What one likes another does not. I know you mentioned tubes in jest but the way a tube is biased determines the sound more than swapping tubes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry4841 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 30 minutes ago, MookieStl said: I am in the same camp. AA xovers with K55M and no issues or complaints. What is the problem exactly? Guaranteed that the improvement was drastic when I went from AL to AA but I had recapped the AA prior to install and that may have been most of the improvement or at least a part. Much like my grandchild when I tease her about a sweet and tell her it does not taste good. Her answer is always "taste good to me." All that matters when it comes right down to it, right? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, henry4841 said: Never going to be a proper answer. Too subjective. What one likes another does not. And that is perfectly appropriate to the capacitor discussion as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 27 minutes ago, jimjimbo said: 32 minutes ago, henry4841 said: Never going to be a proper answer. Too subjective. What one likes another does not. And that is perfectly appropriate to the capacitor discussion as well. Similar squabbles come up in motorcycle forums when the subject as to what's the best tires to use. (it depends on the riding style, etc..) There is usually a consensus that OEM tires are not the ones to buy..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 1 hour ago, kevinmi said: after we figure out why caps sound different, can we move on to tubes? and wire 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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